μὴ θᾶττον συνθλασθείη

[modus.irrealis]

Hi,

I was hoping someone could help with the following.

Ἄιδης πῶς ὑποίσει, ΣῶτεÏ￾ παÏ￾ουσίαν τὴν σήν, καὶ μὴ θᾶττον συνθλασθείη σκοτοÏ￾μενος, ἀστÏ￾απῆς φωτός σου αἴγλῃ á¼￾κτυφλωθεῖς;

I'm confused by the μὴ θᾶττον συνθλασθείη -- this seems to be an optative, but I'm not entirely sure why it's an optitive or how I'm supposed to understand it. Am I right to translate it as equivalent to a future, so you have

How will Hades endure, Saviour, your presence, and won't it, being dark, be quickly shattered, having been blinded by the brightness of the lightning of your light?

[Kyneto Valesio]

Hi modus

I am new at this so I can't offer any help. Maybe later. But golly gee I wonder why is this forum so moribund ? You asked for help and no help was proferred.

If you tell me where the passage came from I will run it through a parsing machine at Zhubert to see if I can render it (I will try not to cheat)?

Best!

Kyneto

[IreneY]

Nice of you to bump up the thread Kyneto Valesio, not so nice to jump into conclusions

I personally just missed the thread.

No modus I would say it's a simple optative expressing a wish but I know how this sounds. I mean you'd expect either Indicative or Subjuctive perhaps or at least a conditional optative. I am just thinking out loud here but could it be a conditional optative sans the "an"?

I am not sure about the "being dark"'s tense but I'll have to actually think about it a bit and come back to you. (How does this verb go by the way?)

[modus.irrealis]

Kyneto, Hi.

I am new at this so I can't offer any help. Maybe later. But golly gee I wonder why is this forum so moribund ? You asked for help and no help was proferred.

Thanks for posting, which led to a response to my question, but I mean, it wasn't a problem -- I've already received a ton of help on these forums. These forums, though, generally are quieter than some other ones, but I'd wouldn't go quite as far as moribund .

If you tell me where the passage came from I will run it through a parsing machine at Zhubert to see if I can render it (I will try not to cheat)?

It's actually just a line from a Holy Thursday church service, so it's not out of the Bible, and I don't know if Zhubert can help, but I'd appreciate any help.

No modus I would say it's a simple optative expressing a wish but I know how this sounds.

Yeah, I think that's grammatically possible but contextually unlikely -- I mean a prayer for Hades to not be shattered quickly? Plus it's punctuated as a question, and I'm thinking you can't have a wish in the form of a question -- now I'm wondering, can you?

I mean you'd expect either Indicative or Subjuctive perhaps or at least a conditional optative. I am just thinking out loud here but could it be a conditional optative sans the "an"?

That would make a lot of sense -- and then I'd just change the "won't" of my translation to "wouldn't". And since this is poetry (I guess), I should've thought of that possibility.

I am not sure about the "being dark"'s tense but I'll have to actually think about it a bit and come back to you. (How does this verb go by the way?)

Yeah, I didn't know how to render σκοτοÏ￾μενος either, perhaps "being in darkness" would be better than my "being dark." I'm not sure what you mean by your question, though.

[Kyneto Valesio]

I was wondering how they pronounce the scritptures in a modern greek orthodox church. Is it the same as what I am learning from dobson and mounce ?

Kyneto

[Kyneto Valesio]

sorry .. my last post should have been a new topic .. shessshhh ADD

[IreneY]

Modus

a) I meant "now" not "no"
b) I know what you mean about the "expressing wish" and its contextual impossibility. I just thought I'd mentioned it though since my automatic syntactical circuits cut in first and then logic cut in with a "whoa there!"
c) my question actually was "How is σκοτοῦμαι" declined? I know its meaning, I have no idea about its declination
d) all in all, since the meaning is clear I think that I'll just pretend the "an" is there and consider it "poetic licence" afterall

Kinetus

I've never read dobson and mounce (and yes you should have created a new thread ) but they use a sort of byzantine pronounciation which is in between modern and koine and is difficult to tell apart from either really (especially when chanted I should add).

[modus.irrealis]

a) I meant "now" not "no"

-- that's alright -- the "no" was probably right anyway.

c) my question actually was "How is σκοτοῦμαι" declined? I know its meaning, I have no idea about its declination

It's a σκοτῶ, σκοτοῖς, etc. verb.

d) all in all, since the meaning is clear I think that I'll just pretend the "an" is there and consider it "poetic licence" afterall

Yeah, I'm thinking you're right. Thanks.