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salutation to the Colossians, 1:1-2

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salutation to the Colossians, 1:1-2

Postby bacon » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:54 pm

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Postby IreneY » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:42 pm

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Postby Bombichka » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:59 pm

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Postby Bert » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:21 pm

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Postby IreneY » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:37 pm

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Postby Bert » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:08 am

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Postby IreneY » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:06 am

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Postby Bombichka » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:12 am

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Postby IreneY » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:22 am

let me murder a translator, have a bath and catch up with Morpheus and I'll manage a coherent answer
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Postby IreneY » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:16 pm

ok let's see if I can write something that makes some sense now (no guarantee about spelling though, it's being anoter too busy day)

o aderfos Timotheos
to me, it's not only that it emphasizes the word brother, it also shows what is considered Tim's most important "quality"
It sort of like saying that Timothy 's being a brother is what should the Colossians take into consideration (bear in mind that it's of a more subtle value, less strong than what it appears by my -so called- explanation)

Timotheos o aderfos
with this word order he's actually adding some more info about which Timothy we are talking about. It is Timothy as a person who is important, not just his being a brother

Does that make any sense?
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Postby Bombichka » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:21 am

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Postby IreneY » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:02 am

well, as far as I could follow the French text I agree with it

As far as you last comment goes, I can't say I really grasped the full meaning of it but no, it's not a different language; I don't think any linguist (apart from some notable exeptions who also denied that modern Greeks have a right to call themselves Greek) has said so. That's a big discussion though I guess and best not started in a such a thread :)
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Postby Bombichka » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:57 pm

well, I meant that, technically, Modern Greek relates to Ancient Greek in the same way as Italian relates to Latin.

thus, it's illogical to claim Modern Greek is the same language as Ancient Greek if we claim that Italian isn't the same language as Latin.

we should either postulate that both (and any other languages for that matter) represent the same continuity, or that both are separate from their ancient forms.

or, as it seems to me more productive, we should insist on the relativity of the notion "same/different language" on a diachronical level in the same way linguists say it is hard to determine it on a synchronical level, e.g. in the case of "language/dialect" distinction.

but those are indeed random thoughts which are completely off-topic here.
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Postby Bert » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:32 am

Bombichka wrote:well, I meant that, technically, Modern Greek relates to Ancient Greek in the same way as Italian relates to Latin.

thus, it's illogical to claim Modern Greek is the same language as Ancient Greek if we claim that Italian isn't the same language as Latin.


I know neither Latin nor Italian (nor Portugese/Spanish/French) but it is my impression that the differences between Latin and its daughter languages(?) are greater than between Classical Greek and Modern Greek. Is my impression correct?
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Postby IreneY » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:13 am

so I've heard but I don't know Italian either (just a bit of French) so I can't really argue the point :) All I know is that there are great differences between the ancient forms of Greek and modern Greek (though not so much with Koine) but the similarites are great too
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