Textkit Logo

Perfects in Rev. 3:8

Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.
Post a reply

Perfects in Rev. 3:8

Postby Bert » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:09 am

My understanding of the perfect tense is that it describes a state rather than
an action.
I am curious how this affects the meaning of a phrase in Revelation 3:8.
i[face=SPIonic])dou\ de/dwka e)nw/pio/n sou qu/ran h)new|gme/nhn,[/face]
Concerning the first perfect, [face=SPIonic]de/dwka [/face], is it important that it has been given,
or just that it is available now?
Concerning the second perfect, [face=SPIonic]h)new|gme/nhn[/face], my question is; Does this
participle say anything about the fact that this door was opened, or just that
it is standing open, maybe just happened to stand open?

Thank you.
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada
Top

Postby Paul » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:39 am

Bert wrote:Concerning the first perfect, [face=SPIonic]de/dwka [/face], is it important that it has been given, or just that it is available now?


Hi Bert,

Well, in order to be available now it must first be given.

I would say that the perfect here stresses the present availability of the given door. In otherwords, this perfect denotes a persistent state of the object.

Bert wrote:Concerning the second perfect, [face=SPIonic]h)new|gme/nhn[/face], my question is; Does this participle say anything about the fact that this door was opened, or just that it is standing open, maybe just happened to stand open?


I don't think this perfect participle says anything about the opening of the door. Rather, simply that the door is open and remains open.

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York
Top

Postby Bert » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:04 pm

Thanks Paul. Concerning your first comment (Well, in order to be available now it must first be given.) Would there then only be a very slight difference in meaning if the verb had been in the 3 rd person, "someone has given..." or even " you have taken for yourself..." ?

(I was hoping that you would be at least one of the ones to reply, considering the work you have done on verb aspect, so thanks again)
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada
Top

Postby Paul » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:52 pm

Bert wrote:Concerning your first comment (Well, in order to be available now it must first be given.) Would there then only be a very slight difference in meaning if the verb had been in the 3 rd person, "someone has given..." or even " you have taken for yourself..." ?


Hi Bert,

Yeah, that's how I see it. The clause sooner concerns the persistent availability of an open door than who put it there.

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York
Top
Post a reply

Return to Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests

Textkit - Greek & Latin Learning Tools