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Yet another query...

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:55 pm
by Ray
Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [size=150] λεγετε τουτον τον λογον [/size] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [size=150] λεγετε τον λογον[/size] First of all is that correct to say in the first place and if so would that mean "You speak 'a' word" as opposed to "You speak 'this' word".

Also what the heck does [size=150] τουτον[/size] or [size=150] τουτους[/size] mean in the first place?

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am
by klewlis
Both words are forms of [size=134]οὑτος[/size], which is simply an adjective meaning "this". In your example [size=134]τουτον[/size] is used because it is the masculine accusative singular form, which matches [size=134]λογον[/size]. So, it really just means "this word" as opposed to "a" word, "the" word, or "that" word. In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:22 am
by Ray
I get it now. Thanks again.

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:29 am
by Bert
klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why λεγετε τον λογον would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)

Re: Yet another query...

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:02 am
by Paul
Ray wrote:Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [size=150] λεγετε τουτον τον λογον [/size] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [size=150] λεγετε τον λογον[/size]
Hi Ray,

The demonstrative force ('this') of [size=150]οὗτος[/size] often refers to something that's already been said. So, "this word" in "you say this word" likely refers to a saying that is known.

There is another demonstrative pronoun - [size=150]ὅδε[/size] - which also means 'this'. But it usually refers to something not yet mentioned. So, [size=150]λέγεις τάδε[/size]
would mean "you speak this (these)" in the sense "you speak as follows".

Cordially,

Paul

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:08 am
by Ray
Thanks alot guys I'd be really confused now if it were not for you guys.

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:38 pm
by klewlis
Bert wrote:
klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why λεγετε τον λογον would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)
I think it can, in some cases (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But I should have had just "word". :)