Textkit Logo

Yet another query...

Are you learning New Testament Greek with Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback. Use this forum too to discuss all things Koine, LXX & New Testament Greek including grammar, syntax, textbook talk and more.

Yet another query...

Postby Ray » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:55 pm

Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [face=SPIonic] legete touton ton logon [/face] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [face=SPIonic] legete ton logon[/face] First of all is that correct to say in the first place and if so would that mean "You speak 'a' word" as opposed to "You speak 'this' word".

Also what the heck does [face=SPIonic] touton[/face] or [face=SPIonic] toutouj[/face] mean in the first place?
User avatar
Ray
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Postby klewlis » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

Both words are forms of [face=SPIonic]ou(toj[/face], which is simply an adjective meaning "this". In your example [face=SPIonic]touton[/face] is used because it is the masculine accusative singular form, which matches [face=SPIonic]logon[/face]. So, it really just means "this word" as opposed to "a" word, "the" word, or "that" word. In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Postby Ray » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:22 am

I get it now. Thanks again.
User avatar
Ray
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Postby Bert » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:29 am

klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.

Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why [face=SPIonic] legete ton logon[/face] would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Re: Yet another query...

Postby Paul » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:02 am

Ray wrote:Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [face=SPIonic] legete touton ton logon [/face] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [face=SPIonic] legete ton logon[/face]


Hi Ray,

The demonstrative force ('this') of [face=SPIonic]ou(=toj[/face] often refers to something that's already been said. So, "this word" in "you say this word" likely refers to a saying that is known.

There is another demonstrative pronoun - [face=SPIonic]o(/de[/face] - which also means 'this'. But it usually refers to something not yet mentioned. So, [face=SPIonic]le/geij ta/de[/face]
would mean "you speak this (these)" in the sense "you speak as follows".

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby Ray » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:08 am

Thanks alot guys I'd be really confused now if it were not for you guys.
User avatar
Ray
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Postby klewlis » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:38 pm

Bert wrote:
klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.

Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why [face=SPIonic] legete ton logon[/face] would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)


I think it can, in some cases (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But I should have had just "word". :)
User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada


Return to Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests