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Distinct groups

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Distinct groups

Postby GTM » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:23 pm

I am in need of assistance rgarding Ephesians 1:1

παυλος αποστολος χριστου ιησου δια θεληματος θεου τοις αγιοις τοις ουσιν [εν εφεσω] και πιστοις εν χριστω ιησου

Some translations seem to suggest that there are two distinct groups here.

The first group would be the Saints
The second group would be the Faithful.

Are to understand this text as making that distinction or would it be better understood as the saints who are faithful?

GTM
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Re: Distinct groups

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:59 pm

I haven't checked with more clear examples, but my instinct is that if it did refer to two distinct groups than it would say και τοις πιστοις... with the article. What seems natural to me is to read as "to the saints who are in Ephesus and who are faithful in Jesus Christ."
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Re: Distinct groups

Postby GTM » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:27 pm

modus.irrealis

Thank you for your response.

GTM
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Re: Distinct groups

Postby jaihare » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:06 am

modus.irrealis wrote:I haven't checked with more clear examples, but my instinct is that if it did refer to two distinct groups than it would say και τοις πιστοις... with the article. What seems natural to me is to read as "to the saints who are in Ephesus and who are faithful in Jesus Christ."

I'd agree with modus.irrealis here. This seems to be a instance of Sharp's rule.

ὁ substantive καὶ substantive (one group)
ὁ substantive καὶ ὁ substantive (two groups)

Παῦλος ἀπόστολος Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ διὰ θελήματος θεοῦ τοῖς ἁγίοις τοῖς οὖσιν [ἐν Ἐφέσῳ] καὶ πιστοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

Perhaps "saints" is going too far in the specific meaning. "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the holy who are [in Ephesus] and faithful in Christ Jesus."

What if we remove the parenthetical. τοῖς ἁγίοις τοῖς οὖσιν καὶ πιστοῖς - "to the holy ones, the ones being also faithful." That's interesting.
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Distinct groups

Postby GTM » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

jaihare

Thank you. You both have been a good help on this one.

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