Textkit Logo

Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Are you reading Homeric Greek? Whether you are a total beginner or an advanced Homerist, here you can meet kindred spirits. Beside Homer, use this board for all things early Greek poetry.

Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Postby Rhoover60 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:09 pm

I checked the "Pharr Discussions By Chapter" and did not seen anything to help me.

I have trouble understanding the use of οὐ at the beginning of 1:86.

Is it referenced two lines later with οὔ τις [1:88] being an emphasis?

thanks,
Rhoover60
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:54 am

Re: Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Postby Paul Derouda » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:25 pm

θαρσήσας μάλα εἰπὲ θεοπρόπιον ὅ τι οἶσθα:
οὐ μὰ γὰρ Ἀπόλλωνα Διῒ φίλον, ᾧ τε σὺ Κάλχαν
εὐχόμενος Δαναοῖσι θεοπροπίας ἀναφαίνεις,
οὔ τις ἐμεῦ ζῶντος καὶ ἐπὶ χθονὶ δερκομένοιο
σοὶ κοίλῃς παρὰ νηυσί βαρείας χεῖρας ἐποίσει

Take courage and tell the oracle that you know. Because, no, by Apollo-dear-to-Zeus, to whom you pray in order to reveal oracles to Danaans - no one, as long as I live and look upon the earth, shall lay his heavy hands upon you by the hollow ships (i.e. in the Achaen camp)

Does this make it any clearer?

The οὐ μὰ in οὐ μὰ Ἀπόλλωνα doesn't mean much more than "by/oh" in "by/oh God", except that it's in the negative because what follows is as well.
User avatar
Paul Derouda
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Postby Rhoover60 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:16 pm

Yes it does. Thanks much.

I had come up with, "For surely not" from the οὐ μὰ γὰρ, but your rendering makes the whole phrasing more clear to me.

Regards,
Rhoover60
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:54 am

Re: Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Postby Paul Derouda » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:26 pm

οὐ μὰ γὰρ Ἀπόλλωνα – "because, no, by Apollo"

I over translated a bit to make my point. Here, as often, the function of γαρ is to connect the sentence with what precedes, and "because" is too much. Similarly, οὐ anticipates οὔ τις later on. In good English, you might say simply "by Apollo".

Good luck with Homer! The first book of the Iliad is terribly good, I really hope you reach its end. The rest is excellent as well, but the first book is a masterful composition that stands even on its own. (From there, you can continue with the rest...!)
User avatar
Paul Derouda
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Understanding οὐ and οὔ τις in Illiad 1:86,88

Postby Rhoover60 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:05 pm

Your comments and encouragement are much appreciated.

RH
Rhoover60
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:54 am


Return to Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests