Translation of Iliad I.59-67

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Hu

Translation of Iliad I.59-67

Post by Hu » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:59 am

I just finished chapter XXVII of Pharr and was wondering if my translation of these lines was correct. Specifically, the use of άν and κέν with the optative was confusing me, so along with some other things I've translated it more literally than I'd normally do to fix the grammar in my mind. The wording of á½￾τι τόσσον εχώσατο Φοῖβος Απόλλων also confused me, not just because it's object-verb-subject, but because I as an English speaker expect a preposition there. I have, though, learned from my studies how Greek and Latin (Sanskrit as well) often do without prepositions where we use them.

ΑτÏ￾είδη, νῦν άμμε πάλιν πλάγχθεντας οίω
ὰψ απονοστήσειν, εί κεν θάνατόν γε φÏ￾οιμεν,
ει δὴ á½￾μοῦ πόλεμός τε δαμᾳ και λοιμὸς ΑχαιοÏ￾Ï‚.
Αλλ' άγε, δή τινα μάντιν εÏ￾είομεν á½´ ἱεÏ￾ῆα
á½´ και ονειÏ￾οπόλον, και γάÏ￾ Ï„'ὀναÏ￾ εκ Διός εστιν,
á½￾Ï‚ κ'á¼￾ίποι, á½￾τι τόσσον εχώσατο Φοῖβος Απόλλων
εί Ï„'άÏ￾' á½￾ γ'ευχωλῆς επιμέμφεται, εί Ï„'ἑκατόμβης
αί κέν πως αÏ￾νῶν κνίσης αιγῶν τε τελείων
βοÏ￾λεται αντιάσας ἡμῖν απο λοιγὀν αμῦναι.

Atreide, now I think us, beaten back, about to return back home, if perhaps death itself we wish to flee, and if war and plague are really going to crush us Akhaians together. But come on, we should ask a seer or priest, or even a dream-interpreter (for even a dream is from Zeus) who might tell us what so great it is that Phoibos Apollon is angered at, and whether he himself finds fault in our prayers or offerings, and if perhaps in some way he might want to partake in the savor of mature lambs and goats in order to protect us from destruction.

Many thanks!

Edit: fixed Greek typo.

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IreneY
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Post by IreneY » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:51 pm

Welll I think your translation is ok apart from two things (of course it maybe that I misunderstood what you wrote).

In the first lines what he says is (I think; and my Homeric Greek is rather rusty mind you) that they should return home after roving, if they are to avoid death etc (as you wrote).

In the last line I think they are going to ask Apollo to take the plague from them

Hu

Post by Hu » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:46 pm

IreneY wrote:In the first lines what he says is (I think; and my Homeric Greek is rather rusty mind you) that they should return home after roving, if they are to avoid death etc (as you wrote).

Is the future used to convey a wish or desire that way? It would make more sense.

In the last line I think they are going to ask Apollo to take the plague from them

That's what I thought too, Akhilles is asking if Apollo would be willing to stop if they did something to satiate him. I don't think they're going to do it yet, he's saying that they should ask a seer to see if it's possinle first.

Thank you.

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Re: Translation of Iliad I.59-67

Post by modus.irrealis » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:51 am

I've always been confused by this passage, especially the first three lines, but in general I read it the way you did.

Hu wrote:The wording of á½￾τι τόσσον εχώσατο Φοῖβος Απόλλων also confused me, not just because it's object-verb-subject, but because I as an English speaker expect a preposition there. I have, though, learned from my studies how Greek and Latin (Sanskrit as well) often do without prepositions where we use them.


I take τόσσον to be an adverbial use of the accusative, and the edition I'm reading (Benner) has á½￾ τι rather than ὅτι, so I read "what Phoebus Apollo is so greatly angered at."

LIke I said above, the first three lines confuse me. I read them as "Now I think that, if we (should) escape death, we will return home, if indeed war together with plague will overpower the Achaeans." That does make sense, I think. Benner says ει δὴ "'if, in fact' is nearly equivalent to 'since in fact'," and I can sort of see that with the future here. I don't think this is all that different from your translation either. I'm also wondering now if you can interpret the future as "should."

About the ending lines, notice that the object of βοÏ￾λεται is απο αμῦναι while your translation suggests that it's αντιάσας. I also at first understood "us" as the object of αμῦναι but grammatically it has to be λοιγὀν, so I read it as "whether he, having partaken of the savour of unblemished lambs and goats, might somehow wish to ward off ruin for us." Also, I've always understood τέλειος as perfect rather than mature.

Hu

Re: Translation of Iliad I.59-67

Post by Hu » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:22 am

modus.irrealis wrote:About the ending lines, notice that the object of βοÏ￾λεται is απο αμῦναι while your translation suggests that it's αντιάσας. I also at first understood "us" as the object of αμῦναι but grammatically it has to be λοιγὀν, so I read it as "whether he, having partaken of the savour of unblemished lambs and goats, might somehow wish to ward off ruin for us." Also, I've always understood τέλειος as perfect rather than mature.

That makes a bit more sense, thank you. And I translated τέλειος as "mature" because that's kind of what it implied to me, but I suppose "perfect" does fit the situation better.

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