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Pharr section 128 line 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:35 am
by Bert
This line reads as follows: [face=SPIonic]ei)/ pote kraiai/nei a)/nac e)e/ldwr i(erh=i, Danaoi\ ti/sousi da/krua ge/rontoj be/lessin qeou=.[/face] I think I know what this means but I would like to make sure that I am on the right path. I'll give my translation with the words in bold print being the ones that I am unsure of. Any comment will be appreciated.<br /><br />If at any time the Protector performs his will for the priest, the Greeks will pay for the tears of the old man by means of the arrows of god.

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:12 am
by annis
It looks right to me.<br /><br />I normally translate [face=SPIonic]pote/[/face] as "ever" when it follows [face=SPIonic]ei)[/face], but that's just a stylistic matter.<br /><br />

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:17 am
by Paul
I quite agree with 'if ever' for [face=SPIonic]ei)/ pote[/face].<br /><br />Less sure about whose [face=SPIonic]e)e/ldwr [/face] we're talking about. I read it as the desire not<br />of [face=SPIonic]a)/nac[/face], but of [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face].<br /><br />Book A is rife with examples of neuter nouns with a dative showing almost a kind of posssion; cf. instances of [face=SPIonic]ge/ras[/face]. See also A.41.<br /><br />I would translate (the meaning, not the words) as "If ever<br />the protector fulfills the priest's wish..."<br /><br />Cordially,<br /><br />Paul<br />

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:55 pm
by Bert
Thanks to both of you.<br />In trying to translate the dative [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face] I didn't even consider that it was the desire of the priest and not of Apollo. It does make more sence that way though. <br />In New Testament Greek I would have expected a word in the genitive to indicate whose desire it was.<br />Several times in Homer I have noticed that I have to supply the word 'his'. Is this a characteristic of Homer or Classical Greek in general?

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:50 am
by annis
[quote author=Bert de Haan link=board=2;threadid=557;start=0#5051 date=1062028519]<br />In trying to translate the dative [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face] I didn't even consider that it was the desire of the priest and not of Apollo. It does make more sence that way though. <br />[/quote]<br /> <br />Yep. Grammarian types call it the "dative of interest." He accomplishes the will for the priest.<br /><br />
<br />In New Testament Greek I would have expected a word in the genitive to indicate whose desire it was.<br />Several times in Homer I have noticed that I have to supply the word 'his'. Is this a characteristic of Homer or Classical Greek in general?<br />
<br /><br />Yep. Often classical will use the definite article where an English speaker would use a possesive. [face=SPIonic]a)ei\ a)kou/w tou= patro/j[/face] "I always listen to the (i.e. my) father."<br /><br />Homer will omit such things if the context is clear and it suits him to do so.