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Common homeric verbs

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:51 am
by psilord
What are the 100 most common homeric verbs?

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:19 am
by chad
this is straight from chicago homer, searching all verbs which appear in the iliad 44 times or more:

[edit: i just fixed this up for you, converting the unicode to betacode through one of Paul's programs]

1-100 in order of frequency:

εἰμί ἔχω φημί ἔρχομαι εἶπον εἶμι δίδωμι εἶδον βάλλω ἵστημι αἱρέω τίθημι βαίνω φέρω οἶδα ἱκνέομαι γίγνομαι ἄγω ἐθέλω ὄρνυμι μάχομαι πρόσφημι πείθω τίκτω ἕπομαι κεῖμαι κελεύω ἀκούω ἵημι τεύχω προσεῖπον προσαυδάω ἐλαύνω μένω πίπτω λείπω ἀμείβω ἀγορεύω φαίνω ἔοικα φεύγω ὄλλυμι φωνέω δαμάζω εὔχομαι νοέω κτείνω ἄρχω τελέω ἄνωγα λύω χέω ἧμαι λαμβάνω θνήσκω δύω καλέω ἐάω μιμνήσκω οἴομαι φράζω ὀτρύνω γιγνώσκω πέλω ἱκάνω δύναμαι ἐρύω ὁράω ναίω ἀχεύω κίω μέμαα κλύω φρονέω δείδω λανθάνω δέχομαι ῤέζω κέλομαι καλύπτω παύω μέλλω ἀμύνω παρίστημι ἠμί εὑρίσκω θέω σεύω χολόω ἀνίστημι ἕλκω λίσσομαι καίω τίω τρέπω ἀΐσσω ἔλπω ῤύομαι κατακτείνω μάρναμαι

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:52 pm
by psilord
Awesome!

Thanks a lot, chad!

Re: Common homeric verbs

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:23 pm
by edonnelly
psilord Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:51 am wrote:What are the 100 most common homeric verbs?
chad Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:19 am wrote:1-100 in order of frequency:

...
Under 30 minutes response time (and in the middle of the night at that)? That's insane (but awesome)!

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:26 pm
by Timotheus
some folks don't sleep :lol:

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:06 am
by chad
it actually wasn't late here in ye old sydney town

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:13 am
by Timotheus
I am home from work now and I looked in my library and found

"[size=150]οί κάταλογοι τῶν ἐπῶν τῶν ὁμηρείων[/size] Homeric Vocabularies ;owen and goodspeed with a forward by Clyde Pharr ; from the Univeresity of Oklahoma Press


not only does it have the verbs but it has noun, pronouns, adverbs, prep's, etc..

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:52 am
by psilord
chad wrote:it actually wasn't late here in ye old sydney town
No, but it was when I posted. :)

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:31 pm
by Bardo de Saldo
I also have Owen and Goodspeed's Homeric Vocabularies. It has 6 lists of verbs; List I includes verbs ocurring 500-2,000 times, List II verbs ocurring 200-500 times...

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:34 am
by annis
chad wrote:this is straight from chicago homer, searching all verbs which appear in the iliad 44 times or more:
This list further supports my view that the -μι verbs should be introduced within the first, say, 10 lessons of any Greek textbook, not saved for last.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:51 pm
by psilord
Are -[size=150]μι[/size] verbs so complex that they have to get pushed off until later in a textbook? I've noticed I'm starting to come across them in the pharr book and they are often glossed over.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:25 pm
by Bert
I don't think that they are that much more complex but they are different than the ones that are taught earlier in the books.
Teaching them at the end is probably done in an effort to minimize information overload.
I can understand William's sentiment but by pushing mi verbs ahead you are shoving something else back.
Everything can't be taught at once.
One reason I like Mounce's primer is that it holds of teaching verbs untill the noun system has been taught.
Others dislike it for the same reason.
I remember parsing a verb like e)/luon as acc. sg. masc. (That was after using mounce's system.) I can imagine totaly mixing things up if nouns and verbs were taught at the same time.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:48 am
by annis
Bert wrote:I don't think that they are that much more complex but they are different than the ones that are taught earlier in the books.
Teaching them at the end is probably done in an effort to minimize information overload.
Then something really obscure should be shoved to the back.

My reasoning is that things that happen a lot should get a lot of practice. Several of the athematic verbs are very common, and often eccentric in their various parts. More practice in common but tricky things seems more valuable.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:55 pm
by psilord
Out of curiosity, what is the sorting algorithm for polytonic greek in betacode form? Are accents counted at all in the sort? What if it was unicode polytonic greek being sorted?

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:59 pm
by Bert
annis wrote:
Bert wrote:I don't think that they are that much more complex but they are different than the ones that are taught earlier in the books.
Teaching them at the end is probably done in an effort to minimize information overload.
Then something really obscure should be shoved to the back.

My reasoning is that things that happen a lot should get a lot of practice. Several of the athematic verbs are very common, and often eccentric in their various parts. More practice in common but tricky things seems more valuable.
That makes sense.
Mounce waits untill the very end before getting into mi verbs.
But then, there are only 10 mi verbs that occur 50 times or more in the whole New Testament. In a basic grammar like his, there are not really any obscure things that could be shoved back. He could have added 15 chapters or so to get into things more obscure.
(I sometimes feel the need to defend his book because it worked so well for me.)