Textkit Logo

Stanley Lombardo Reads Iliad Book I

Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek.

Postby annis » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:40 am

chad wrote:i've never heard it; the only person who has said that they've looked at my old pitch stuff is eureka. since i can't access media files online anymore could somebody say whether it's good, and also this one?


Heyyy, this is not bad. He really chomps down on the aspirates, perhaps more than is really needed. I wish he'd make epsilon and omicron tenser (er, and iota), but eta and omega are nice and open.

The rhythm seems a bit rushed sometimes, but once he gets going it settles.

Perhaps I should hunt down a microphone.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:19 am

After googling a bit I found the page again:

http://homoecumenicus.com/homer_iliad_ioannidis.htm

The aedo's name is Ioannidis Nikolaos. (Now that I think about it, the name sounds more Lithuanian than Greek.)

I tried to reproduce the tune on my cheap Casio keyboard (I'm a one-finger pianist), but couldn't. I'll bet he uses a 4 note scale.
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby Eureka » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:52 am

Bardo de Saldo wrote:After googling a bit I found the page again:

http://homoecumenicus.com/homer_iliad_ioannidis.htm

The aedo's name is Ioannidis Nikolaos. (Now that I think about it, the name sounds more Lithuanian than Greek.)

I tried to reproduce the tune on my cheap Casio keyboard (I'm a one-finger pianist), but couldn't. I'll bet he uses a 4 note scale.

He uses a Modern Greek pronunciation, and he has the pitch rise at the end of both lines (I don't know of any justification for this).

I like his style though, pity about the other things.
User avatar
Eureka
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:58 pm

"(...) pity about the other things." (Eureka.)

I can only think of two good reasons, Eureka, to attempt Homer live: linguistic and poetic. I'd include Mr. Nikolaos in the poetic side.

I cut poets much more slack than linguists, especially if they don't present themselves as a model to follow. If I did a fair job singing Schubert's Ave Maria, would you criticise my less than perfect latin accent? Would Schubert or Maria care? I'd be honoring and bringing back to life both of them.

I would end a line on the rise if I was going to enjamb with the next one.
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby Eureka » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:12 pm

Bardo de Saldo wrote:If I did a fair job singing Schubert's Ave Maria, would you criticise my less than perfect latin accent?

No, but if you were reciting Virgil I would.

Much of the information Homer was getting across was in the sound of the words themselves. Therefore, something is missing if you change the pronunciation. You might agree when you get to “πολιfλισVιο”.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:I would end a line on the rise if I was going to enjamb with the next one.

I don’t know of any evidence supporting the idea of a rise due to enjambment. In fact, it’s most likely that it was only some non-enjambed lines have are rises at the end, because only they can end in acutes.
phpbb
User avatar
Eureka
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Eureka » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:27 pm

Do you know of another word for enjambment? I've been trying to look it up in The Prosody of Greek Speech, but there doesn't seem to be anything on it.
phpbb
User avatar
Eureka
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:07 am

run-on :oops:

encabalgamiento :roll:

das enjambement :wink:

Sorry, Mr. :idea: ! , I couldn't find it either. It might help that it comes from gamba, which comes from kampé.

"I don’t know of any evidence (...)"

That's why I said that that's what I would do. Thinking more about it, I guess it doesn't matter whether the line ends rising or falling, as long as the musical phrase it belongs to continues on the next line. Don't tell me there were no musical phrases in the good old days...
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby Eureka » Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:27 am

Bardo de Saldo wrote:Don't tell me there were no musical phrases in the good old days...

I Wouldn't say that. :)
Bardo de Saldo wrote:That's why I said that that's what I would do. Thinking more about it, I guess it doesn't matter whether the line ends rising or falling, as long as the musical phrase it belongs to continues on the next line.

I must admit, the pitch modelled midi I sent you did not carry over the rhythm to the next line under enjambment, but I think you're right, it probably should.

Maybe Chad will have different opinion on this.
phpbb
User avatar
Eureka
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:52 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:06 pm

"Perhaps I should hunt down a microphone." (Will.)

I'll be your #1 fan, cheese-head included!

The audience requests some poetry in Mandarin Chinese. We'll be on the alert for the slightest stress! :wink:
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby annis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:57 pm

Bardo de Saldo wrote:The audience requests some poetry in Mandarin Chinese.


Very well: William Recites from the Wang River Collection, by Wang Wei, "Deer Park" (Chinese with translation here). My mic is crappy and the cord keeps me in range of computer hum, so please excuse the flatness of the recording. Noise reduction is black magic.

I imagine I have half a dozen books with this poem in it, so famous is it.

This is a Tang Shi, from the Tang shi san-bai shou, "300 Tang Poems." The shi is a syllable counting scheme, with 5 or 7 syllables a line, with phrasing usually 2+3, 2+2+3. The marked pause between 2 and 3 is how I've always seen and heard Chinese people recite these. If anything, I've been restrained.

We'll be on the alert for the slightest stress! :wink:


No doubt.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:12 pm

Thank you, Will; that was very helpful.

I do have to say that I recorded the poem on a small digital recorder that has a tiny built-in speaker, laid supine with the recorder on my cheek, played the poem, and detected a slight vibration on certain syllables. Stress? :D
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby annis » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:32 am

Bardo de Saldo wrote:I do have to say that I recorded the poem on a small digital recorder that has a tiny built-in speaker, laid supine with the recorder on my cheek, played the poem, and detected a slight vibration on certain syllables. Stress? :D


Absolutely. ;) While it may be useful to compare this or that Chinese tone to Greek pitch accent for the sound, the two systems are entirely different. Since each syllable is a word in the poem, some get more emphasis than others. The tone determines the meaning.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby swiftnicholas » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:17 pm

Thanks William, that was a lot of fun. I don't know anything about Chinese, but I was rather impressed. For how long did you study? When did you start?

If you're still taking requests, how about part of Sappho's [face=spionic]poikiloqron' a)qanat' Afrodita[/face]? :)
swiftnicholas
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: New York

Postby annis » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:13 am

swiftnicholas wrote: For how long did you study? When did you start?


I studied Chinese for four years in college (more than 15 years ago). I focused mostly on the Classical Language, so my command of spoken Mandarin isn't always sound. But if you need help with a commentary on the Dao De Jing, I'm your guy. :)

If you're still taking requests, how about part of Sappho's [face=spionic]poikiloqron' a)qanat' Afrodita[/face]?


I was thinking I'd start smaller! Perhaps Sappho PMG 976 or an Anacreontic - the meters are very clear on those.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby swiftnicholas » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:01 am

I've always wanted to learn Classical Chinese, but it seems so terribly intimidating. Perhaps if there was a class nearby I would give it a shot; maybe someday there will be a ChineseKit? :)

annis wrote:I was thinking I'd start smaller! Perhaps Sappho PMG 976 or an Anacreontic - the meters are very clear on those.


That would be great :) I hadn't read that poem (Sappho PMG 976); it's beautiful.
swiftnicholas
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: New York

Postby annis » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:10 am

swiftnicholas wrote:maybe someday there will be a ChineseKit?


You never, never never ever, want to look at a classical Chinese grammar that is out of copyright.

I hadn't read that poem (Sappho PMG 976); it's beautiful.


Yes. It is the first piece of Greek I ever memorized.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Yhevhe » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:21 pm

I'd prefer a hundred times classical japanese rather than chinese. It kinds of gives me the creeps.
User avatar
Yhevhe
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:39 pm
Location: Venezuela

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:58 pm

No se nombra la soga en casa del ahorcado, Yhevhe.

(One shouldn't mention the rope at the hanged man's house.)

:wink:
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Re: Thanks

Postby Eliphas » Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 am

I've got it in MP3 format. Contact me if you want it. :roll:
phpbb
Eliphas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 8:32 am
Location: Sevilla

Postby Eliphas » Thu May 05, 2005 9:13 am

i'm spanish too. Let's talk about reading homer for spanish speakers!
phpbb
Eliphas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 8:32 am
Location: Sevilla

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Thu May 05, 2005 5:55 pm

Hola don Eliphas. I don't read Homer, I sing it. I use both corrido mexicano and rumba catalana music. The more duende I try to put to my rumba, the more my Greek sounds like Sevillano (polá ditimu sucá Aídi proíaseng jerong). I´m having mild success with an adaptation of the Porrompompón (Lola Flores) to the Iliad.
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Postby Eliphas » Fri May 06, 2005 7:10 am

Great!
Anyway, and as far as I can see, I think that you must use the mitical "tiritritrán-trán-trán". In this case, you'll be using the real homeric entonation, so "Juanito Valderrama" was a fantastic and a really representative of homeric epic.

PD: I am sevillano, so I just know what i'm talking about.
phpbb
Eliphas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 8:32 am
Location: Sevilla

Postby Bardo de Saldo » Fri May 06, 2005 4:20 pm

"[...] Juanito Valderrama [...]." (Eliphas)

Not to speak of Raphael! (¿Pariente suyo?)

I thought that the tirititrán, tran tran was for bulerías. Anyway, I think that the true Homeric intonation sounds more like a muñeira.

How do you re-enact Homer, don Eliphas?

How do you find a voluntary audience?
User avatar
Bardo de Saldo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Newer Mexico

Previous

Return to Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher and 10 guests