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Pharr section 248 line 7

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:01 pm
by Bert
[size=150]οὔ τις )αχαιῶν πρόφρων πείσεται ἔπεσιν )αγαμέμνονι ἀναιδείην ἐπιειμένῳ καὶ κερδαλεόφρονι[/size]
I think the gist of this line is something like; No one of the Achaeans will eagerly obey the words of Agamemnon who is clothed in shamelessness, and crafty.
I don't understand why Agamemnon is in the dative case.
πείθομαι takes an object in the dative, that explains ἔπεσιν.
They are the words of Agamemnon, so why is αγαμέμνονι dative instead of genitive?
If I understand why Agamemnon is dative I may understand the next two datives as well. My quess is that they are in apposition to Agamemnon, ie; the one clothed in shamelessness and the sly one.

Re: Pharr section 248 line 7

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:31 pm
by annis
Bert wrote:[size=150]οὔ τις )αχαιῶν πρόφρων πείσεται ἔπεσιν )αγαμέμνονι ἀναιδείην ἐπιειμένῳ καὶ κερδαλεόφρονι[/size]
I would say Agamemnon is in the dative of interest.

"No one of the Achaians will eagerly obey orders for Agamemnon clothed in shamelessness and crafty."

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:29 am
by Bert
That makes sense. Thank you.

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:42 am
by Paul
Hi Bert,

You, William, and I discussed this issue once before in viewtopic.php?t=557

I think it's safe to say that the dative of interest can also function as a kind of possessive. On this see Smyth 1474-1480. See also Pharr 1000 and Iliad 1.150 whence Pharr 248.7.

Cordially,

Paul

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:55 am
by Bert
Paul, you are right.
I was aware of the dative of interest but somehow it didn't occur to me that this was it. It was good to read that discussion again. I also remember another discussion on this point of a dative being used as a possesive.
See
viewtopic.php?t=963
If I have my memory jogged often enough, it may stick.
Thank you.