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Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek Prose

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Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek Prose

Postby Markos » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:00 pm

I am starting this thread. It is my thread and I set the rules. If you don't like it, you can post in the other thread on Dickey, or you can start your own thread.

Rule One: The only people who are allowed to post in this thread are people who own the book and are using it or seriously intend to use the book.

That's the only rule.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:02 am

I posted my review of the book on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Com ... 0736490&sr

As you can see, I bought the soft cover.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:07 am

Markos wrote:The best way to write out the exercises, I have found, is on index cards.

I'm not so sure about this. Won't better internalization result from typing Greek rather than printing it? After all, the texts we want to read and understand are typed, not printed. Let me try it out and see. I've already done the exercises on p. 29 by hand. Let me try to type them out. See how that feels.

ὁ σοφὸς τὸν ξένον ἐδίωξεν.
ὁ σοφὸς ὑπὸ τοῦ ξένου ἀπέθανεν.
διώκειν.
ὁ ξένος ἐδιώκετο ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφοῦ.
ὁ σοφὸς τὸν ξένον οὐκ ἐδίωκεν ὅτι ἀπέθνῃσκεν.
οὐ μανθάνω γράφειν, ἀλλὰ γράφω τοῦ μαθεῖν.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:24 pm

I bought the soft cover, too. I'm working through it, and I've almost completed it. It has forced me to review both syntax and morphology and learn for active use many vocabulary items that I knew passively (including accents), as well as many idiomatic expressions and individual verb complements. I would have liked to have seen more exercises involving extended passages and especially the use of particles. But overall I'm very pleased with this book.

Many of the sentences for translation involve women--more so than are found in older textbooks. This is good because it forces you to learn feminine forms that are sometimes overlooked. As I noted elsewhere, Dickey seems to take delight in concocting bizarre sentences out of limited syntax and vocabulary. This is amusing, but occasionally the weirdness gets in the way of writing intelligible Greek.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:52 am

Hylander wrote:I bought the soft cover, too.

Great minds think alike, I guess. :D

Hi, Hylander. Welcome to the group. I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years. Glad you're here.

I seem to recall reading a cool story from you about your dog, did I get that right? Share it here, if you want to. I'm not really a dog person myself, but my sisters are in to them big time.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:09 pm

It seems to be a very good book, though I haven't got far yet. I find it very beneficial but somewhat depressing though; someone said that the exercises are easy but not for me at least. Even in the first chapters I made mistakes in almost every sentence, so I've been doing them over and over again until I get close to zero mistakes – which is one reason why I haven't got far. It's surprisingly difficult to get for instance the word order right, and even with the key I'm often left wondering whether I made a mistake or whether my version is ok but just different. And then I make lots of stupid mistakes with concord, accents etc. So if others would like to start a thread with me for cross-checking exercises, I'd be willing to join, although I'm won't probably have the time to advance very quickly.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:25 pm

I've had the same grim, depressing experiences--lots of stupid mistakes of the sort you describe. I don't worry too much about word order, though. And she insists that you must memorize all the vocabulary--only grudgingly, at the end, giving you the English words with a reference to the lesson where the Greek words are found, so that when you don't remember the Greek word (or even just don't remember whether it was oxytone or paroxytone) you have to go through a cumbersome process to find it--I find myself going through this process all too often, even though I usually know the Greek word passively.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:31 pm

Here's how I coded #2 on page 32:

τὰ θηρία πολλάκις κακὰ πάσχει ὑπ' ἀνθρώπων.

You'll notice that I differed from Dickey's inter-language only by dropping the parentheses.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:44 pm

Hi, Paul,

I'm really happy that you enjoyed this group. I love your posts. Even your digressions are always lots of fun and I love your sense of humor. Feel free to use this group in any way you want. Remember, we are here to help each other.
Paul Derouda wrote:Even in the first chapters I made mistakes in almost every sentence, so I've been doing them over and over again until I get close to zero mistakes – which is one reason why I haven't got far.

I'm using the book in the same way. I'm on page 32.
Paul Derouda wrote:I find it very beneficial but somewhat depressing though;

That's how I feel about life. Or maybe it's the other way around. :lol:
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby ailuros » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:15 pm

hello all,

i am one of the voters above. i've just now finished the suggested smyth readings for chapter one (have been ill recently and that has slowed me down). tomorrow morning i will start the chapter proper. going through the smyth passages has already been quite helpful (i now fully understand the anaphoric use of the article, for only one of many examples).

don't feel bad, mr. derouda. i know i will be crawling, too. composition is hard. everytime i've done some i've been shocked at how many errors i make (and pretty bone-headed ones, too, that leave me slapping my forehead, like, how did i get that wrong?).

i hope to post my attempts at some of the sentences without answer key as i go, but it will be slow. i work full time and dickey is only a part of my daily study routine. if nothing else, i can tell already that i will learn a lot just from the smyth reading. have been reading xenophon lately and he is (understandably) one of smyth's favorite references, which is a nice coincidence for me. best wishes to all!
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:39 pm

Thanks for your comforting replies!

Markos wrote:
Paul Derouda wrote:
I find it very beneficial but somewhat depressing though;

That's how I feel about life. Or maybe it's the other way around.

Life. Can't live with it, can't live without it! But thanks for your nice words!

How should we proceed? Start a new thread for each chapter? I suppose we could sort of make our own "answer key" as we go?
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:37 pm

ailuros wrote:hello all,

i am one of the voters above.

χαῖρε καὶ σύγε, φίλε αἴλουρος. I take it you are a cat person? :D

Remember that you can change your vote at any time. Hopefully, you will change yours and I won't change mine. :lol:
Paul Derouda wrote:Thanks for your comforting replies!
How should we proceed? Start a new thread for each chapter? I suppose we could sort of make our own "answer key" as we go?

I'd be inclined not to start new threads unless or until this one becomes too cumbersome to follow.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby ailuros » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:05 am

hi markos! i do particularly love cats, but all critters really. much more than some people.

good questions on how to proceed. most sentences are not covered by the answer key (25 of 35 in chapter 1), plus preliminary exercises are also only partially answered. that's a lot of material.

as everyone seems to be at different places in the book, and as some are more advanced than others (and then there's, well, life), it might tough to coordinate. i thought to throw out only a limited number of sentences per chapter (like 3 or 4), ones i find particularly tricky or ones i want make sure i'm getting what dickey wants me to get. but i suspect there will be far more than 3 or 4 per that will give me pause, especially in later chapters. how i'm going to handle those i don't know.

coming up with any kind of key may be tough, since it seems that many variant but still correct versions will be possible. i guess we will see how it goes and maybe we'll hit on something that works out. tomorrow's friday!
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:11 am

Markos wrote:Here's how I coded #2 on page 32:

τὰ θηρία πολλάκις κακὰ πάσχει ὑπ' ἀνθρώπων.

Let's say you wanted not to code this sentence but to write it. How would you do that? I think you would want to internalize the meaning of the sentence. Some people say that hearing Greek spoken out loud helps to internalize it. Does anyone want to take a crack at recording this sentence?
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby ailuros » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:36 pm

can't speak for others, but i don't read aloud or record. sorry.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:01 am

Markos, you must realize that your post is founded on a very dodgy and arguably nonsensical dichotomy (“coding” vs. “writing”), one that Dickey herself would reject. Do you really want to pervert the purpose of her book? It seems you do.
I have broken your rule 1 (for I don’t yet own the book), for which I apologize, but posters should be warned.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:34 pm

Here's my attempt at #15 on p. 32:

σχεδὸν ἀδύνατον τὸ τὰς ἀναξίας ἀνδρείους ἀποκτείνειν.

I'd appreciate any corrections/feedback/comments. I'd like to see what others came up.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:57 pm

I think ἀνδρείους requires the article as well (see page 10), and I think it would be better with an aorist infinitive ἀποκτεῖναι, killing being a single action.

σχεδὸν ἀδύνατον τὸ τὰς ἀναξίας τοὺς ἀνδρείους ἀποκτεῖναι.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:24 pm

Paul Derouda wrote:I think ἀνδρείους requires the article as well (see page 10), and I think it would be better with an aorist infinitive ἀποκτεῖναι, killing being a single action.

σχεδὸν ἀδύνατον τὸ τὰς ἀναξίας τοὺς ἀνδρείους ἀποκτεῖναι.

thanks, Paul. Your version sounds better to me.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:56 pm

11. Ὁ ξένος τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας μάτην ἐβούλετο λαβεῖν. (Word order???)
12. Μετὰ τὴν μάχην οἱ μὲν τῶν ὁπλίτων ἐτεθνήκεσαν, οἱ δὲ ἐφεύγοντο.
13. Ὁ ἄδικος ξένος ὑπὸ τοῦ υἱοῦ ἀποθνήσκει.
14. Οὗτοι ἤδη τὸν καρπὸν ἔφαγον.
16. Ὦ ξένε, ὁ κύριος τῶν ἄθλων τέθνηκεν.
17. Τὰ θηρία τὸν οἰκέτην ἐς μέσην τὴν ὁδὸν ἐδίωξε.
18. τὰ ῥάιθυμα ζῶια ἤδη τέθνηκεν.
19. οἱ ξένοι οὔπω ἀπέθανον.
20. μετὰ τὸν πόλεμον οἱ τῆς νήσου οἰκηταὶ οὐκέτι ἐβούλοντο τεθνηκέναι.

Here's my attempt at a few sentences on the same page (32). I'd be very grateful for any corrections and suggestions, even and especially on "minor" issues like word order.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:25 pm

12. Μετὰ τὴν μάχην τῶν ὁπλίτων οἱ μὲν ἐτεθνήκεσαν ὑπὸ τῶν πολεμίων οἱ δὲ ἔφευγον.

τῶν ὁπλίτων should be placed before οἱ μὲν . . . οἱ δὲ.

ἔφευγον not ἐφεύγοντο
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:36 pm

Hylander wrote:12. Μετὰ τὴν μάχην τῶν ὁπλίτων οἱ μὲν ἐτεθνήκεσαν ὑπὸ τῶν πολεμίων οἱ δὲ ἔφευγον.

τῶν ὁπλίτων should be placed before οἱ μὲν . . . οἱ δὲ.

Thanks! Actually, that's the word order that I'd instinctively choose myself, but for sentence 5 the key gives:
Μετὰ τὴν νίκην οἱ μὲν τῶν πολεμίων ἐτεθνήκεσαν, οἱ δὲ ὑφ᾽ ὁπλίτων ἐφυλάττοντο.
For this reason I used the same word order in 12 as well. But I suppose both are correct then?

I wonder if it's French se sauver that influenced my ἐφεύγοντο...?
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:05 pm

Well, maybe οἱ μὲν τῶν ὁπλίτων is ok, then.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:01 pm

Paul, Word order. Yours tends to be perfectly “correct” but rather stiff and Latinate, with all the verbs held up till the end. (The Roman Cassius Dio does that in his Greek.) But maybe at this point that’s what Dickey wants you to be doing, and with such syntactically simple sentences it might be best.
In 11, though, I’d have put ματην εβουλετο εarlier in the sentence, after χρυσον or οικιας. λαβειν is fine where it is but could also be brought further forward (but not before εβουλετο). It’s just a matter of style and flow.
As to 5, των πολεμιων “properly” belongs ahead of οι μεν, but would seem rather formal and would make the sentence appear unbalanced. In 12 Hylander’s version is certainly more correct than yours, but your οἱ μὲν τῶν ὁπλίτων ἐτεθνήκεσαν, οἱ δὲ ἐφεύγον{το} is acceptable, as in 5 as you point out. The gen. carries over to the οι δε bit.
I don’t have the English (nor the key) so I won’t venture more.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:19 pm

Thanks, mwh! That's exactly the sort of advice that I needed.

There's a key only for sentences 1-10 in this exercise, that's the reason I'm posting only from 11 on.

I suppose you're correct about my sentences being Latinate. The thing is that when I started the book my sentences were much less so, but Dickey really seems to want me doing it like this. There's no way for me of knowing whether my sentences are "more natural" than the key or just wrong, so I just try to emulate her. But you saying that encourages me to think that I weren't always wrong placing the verb elsewhere than where Dickey wanted it.

Is this ok?
Ὁ ξένος μάτην ἐβούλετο τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας λαβεῖν.

And can I separate μάτην and ἐβούλετο?
Ὁ ξένος μάτην τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας ἐβούλετο λαβεῖν.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:52 pm

And can I separate μάτην and ἐβούλετο?
Ὁ ξένος μάτην τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας ἐβούλετο λαβεῖν.

Seems to me μάτην should be closer to ἐβούλετο. Otherwise the reader loses sight of the adverb, and the adverb and verb ought to be tightly connected.

What about ματην εβουλετο ο ξενος . . . ?
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Timothée » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:58 pm

Isn't it ὁπλιτῶν, i.e. perispomenon? 1st declension masculina in pl.gen. are like 1st declension feminina in their accentuation? Sorry to mention so minor a point. — And apologies for posting to this thread as I am yet to own Dickey's book.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:14 pm

Thanks, both of you!
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:39 pm

I guess she’s just trying to wean beginners off english word order.
Ὁ ξένος μάτην ἐβούλετο τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας λαβεῖν reads well enough, though the weak labein is a long way from ebouleto.
mathn unlikely to be separated from ebouleto, but it could possibly go up front and ebouleto deferred a bit, e.g. mathn o xenos ebouleto … “It was to no avail that the xenos wanted …” (more emphasis on o xenos than with mathn ebouleto o xenos …, which wd be less unusual).

In 20, μετὰ τὸν πόλεμον οἱ τῆς νήσου οἰκηταὶ οὐκέτι ἐβούλοντο τεθνηκέναι, did they really no longer want to be dead (they’re wannabe zombies?), or did they no longer want to die (αποθανεῖν)? Sounds a bit strange either way.
And οικηταί is an odd choice of word, rather than e.g. ἔνοικοι. The normal way of saying “the island’s inhabitants” would actually be οἱ την νῆσον ενοικοῦντες.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Yes, they really wanted to be dead:

"20. After the war the inhabitants of the island no longer wished to be dead."

As I mentioned in another post, it must be difficult constructing sentences for translation with limited vocabulary and grammar, but Dickey seems almost to take a perverse delight in thinking up strange sentences. Markos' sentence above is a case in point: "For unworthy women to kill courageous men Is almost impossible." Or "It is impossible to teach an animal virtue." "Being on guard against sailors is still prudent." "The wild animal is not yet being released by the wise sailor."

Usually it's amusing, but occasionally I feel the sentences are so bizarre they get in the way of learning Greek.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:22 pm

Reminds me of the lightning-struck postillion discussion we once had, or was it postillion-struck lightning? :D
We can say weird things in english, so why not in greek? We just need to get the grammar right.
Last edited by mwh on Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:34 pm

On occasion, the sentences are so strange they border on unintelligibility.

οικητης and οικετης are introduced in the same lesson, I think in order to contrast masculine nouns in -της with short and long antepenult vowels, accented for the most part paroxytone and oxytone, respectively (but πολιτης, οπλιτης). Although morphology isn't explicitly addressed, Dickey develops the vocabulary systematically from lesson to lesson to focus attention successively on different patterns of declension and conjugation. That exerts a further constraint on the vocabulary she can make use of, especially in the earlier lessons, but it forced me to review many obscure points I'd lost sight of. She recommends reading large chunks of Smyth on both morphology and syntax for each lesson.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:26 pm

"On occasion, the sentences are so strange they border on unintelligibility."
Really? None of the sentences you quoted are remotely unintelligible. So long as they’re well-formed, we should be able to produce Greek counterparts.

And what’s wrong with learning how to say "It is impossible to teach an animal virtue” or any of your other examples? Once we know how to say that, we can then say "It is impossible to teach a woman virtue” (a perfectly Greek thing to say, and perhaps deliberately varied by Dickey?), or “You can't teach an old dog new tricks”, and so on ad infinitum. It’s just a matter of slotting the appropriate words into the appropriate slots.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:30 pm

Here's some more. I'd be thankful, again, for any comments.

21. ὦ ἄνθρωπε, οἱ δυνατοὶ ταύτην τὴν δίκην δικάζειν (δικάσαι?) τεθνήκασιν ὑπὸ τῶν ἐχθρῶν.
22. ἔτι ἄδικος ἡ τοῦ δικαστοῦ ἀδελφὴ καὶ λόγωι καὶ ἔργωι. (I'd rather write ἔτι ἀδικεῖ, but it's not in the vocabulary)
23. αἱ μὲν λούσαντο, αἱ δὲ κακὴν νόσον ἔπαθον.
24. οὐ δυνατὸν τὴν ἀρετὴν ζῶιον διδάσκειν.
25. μόνος ὁ οἰκέτης ἐφυλάττετο τὰ θηρία.
26. σχεδὸν ἄξιον ἄθλου τὸ γενναῖον δῶρον.
27. τὸ θηρίον οὐ λύεται ἔτι ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφοῦ ναύτου.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby mwh » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:18 pm

I’ll just comment on
27. τὸ θηρίον οὐ λύεται ἔτι ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφοῦ ναύτου.
ου … ετι shd be together, ουκετι (“no longer”, or οὔπω if it’s “not yet”), and in front of verb.
And adverbial phrases too tend to go ahead of the verb (though less closely attached than adverbs), so better order wd be το θ. υπο του σ.ν. ουπω λυεται.
(Or if put σοφου in predicative position, υπο του ναυτου σοφου, you’d be implying he was wise to hold off.)
Likewise in 25, despite what I said earlier, the verb wd be better at end, after its object. SOV is the most neutral order. And in 26 the subject wd be better up front.

I shouldn’t be doing this without the book, so I’ll bow out now.
Last edited by mwh on Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:22 pm

Paul Derouda wrote:11. Ὁ ξένος τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας μάτην ἐβούλετο λαβεῖν. (Word order???)
12. Μετὰ τὴν μάχην οἱ μὲν τῶν ὁπλίτων ἐτεθνήκεσαν, οἱ δὲ ἐφεύγοντο.
13. Ὁ ἄδικος ξένος ὑπὸ τοῦ υἱοῦ ἀποθνήσκει.
14. Οὗτοι ἤδη τὸν καρπὸν ἔφαγον.
16. Ὦ ξένε, ὁ κύριος τῶν ἄθλων τέθνηκεν.
17. Τὰ θηρία τὸν οἰκέτην ἐς μέσην τὴν ὁδὸν ἐδίωξε.
18. τὰ ῥάιθυμα ζῶια ἤδη τέθνηκεν.
19. οἱ ξένοι οὔπω ἀπέθανον.
20. μετὰ τὸν πόλεμον οἱ τῆς νήσου οἰκηταὶ οὐκέτι ἐβούλοντο τεθνηκέναι.
Here's my attempt at a few sentences on the same page (32). I'd be very grateful for any corrections and suggestions, even and especially on "minor" issues like word order.

Paul Derouda wrote:
Is this ok?
Ὁ ξένος μάτην ἐβούλετο τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας λαβεῖν.

And can I separate μάτην and ἐβούλετο?
Ὁ ξένος μάτην τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας ἐβούλετο λαβεῖν.

Wow, Paul, those look great! My latest versions differ from yours only slightly.

11. ὁ ξένος μάτην τὸν χρυσὸν ἐκ τῆς τοῦ ἐχθροῦ οἰκίας ἤθελε λαβεῖν.
17. τὰ θηρία τὸν οἰκέτην εἰς μέσην τὴν ὁδὸν ἐδίωξεν.
18. τὰ ῥᾴθυμα ζῶᾳ ἤδη τέθνηκεν.
Paul Derouda wrote:Here's some more. I'd be thankful, again, for any comments.

21. ὦ ἄνθρωπε, οἱ δυνατοὶ ταύτην τὴν δίκην δικάζειν (δικάσαι?) τεθνήκασιν ὑπὸ τῶν ἐχθρῶν.
22. ἔτι ἄδικος ἡ τοῦ δικαστοῦ ἀδελφὴ καὶ λόγωι καὶ ἔργωι. (I'd rather write ἔτι ἀδικεῖ, but it's not in the vocabulary)
23. αἱ μὲν λούσαντο, αἱ δὲ κακὴν νόσον ἔπαθον.
24. οὐ δυνατὸν τὴν ἀρετὴν ζῶιον διδάσκειν.
25. μόνος ὁ οἰκέτης ἐφυλάττετο τὰ θηρία.
26. σχεδὸν ἄξιον ἄθλου τὸ γενναῖον δῶρον.
27. τὸ θηρίον οὐ λύεται ἔτι ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφοῦ ναύτου.

Nice. I'll try to take a look at these in the next day or two. ἔρρωσο.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:40 pm

Paul:

21. probably δικάσαι is better here.
22. καὶ λόγωι καὶ ἔργωι should be adjacent or at least closer to ἄδικος, I think. I'm not sure about beginning a sentence with ἔτι. Somehow it doesn't feel right, but I may be wrong. Also, I think it might work better with the copulative verb for the adverb to modify. Maybe αδικος καὶ λόγωι καὶ ἔργωι ετι εστιν . . .
24. αδυνατον?
27. Should be ουπω, "not yet"; ουκετι is "no longer".

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dou)ke%2Fti

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dou)%2Fpw

Cross-posted with mwh but I'll post anyway.

Markos: See mwh's and my comments above about placement of μάτην and ἐβούλετο/ηθελε.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Markos » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:58 pm

@Paul and @Hylander:

χαίρετε ὦ φίλοι.

At this point, what I'm trying to do with the sentences for which Dickey does not provide a key is to produce sentences that SHE would produce if she were providing a key for those sentences. So, if you guys find something in my sentences that you think she would not want in such a key, please correct these mistakes, or, better yet, rewrite them the way you think Dickey would rewrite them. χάριν δώσω ὑμῖν.

From page 32:

26. τὸ γενναῖον δῶρον σχεδὸν ἄξιον ἄθλου.
27. τὸ θηρίον οὔπω λύεται ὑπὸ τοῦ σοφοῦ ναύτου.
28. ἴσως καὶ ὁ νῆσος καὶ ὁ ποταμὸς εὐθὺς ἡρπάσθησαν.
29. (a) μόνος ὁ ξένος τοὺς πολεμίους δικάσει. 2. (b) ὁ ξένος μόνους τοὺς πολεμίους δικάσει.
30. τὸ φυλάττεσθαι τοὺς ναύτας ἔτι φρόνιμον.

ἔρρωσθε.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:51 pm

mwh: Please continue commenting, especially about word order. Dickey doesn't provide much on that topic.
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Re: Using Dickey's Intro to the Comp and Analysis of Greek P

Postby Paul Derouda » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:32 pm

Thanks for your comments!

Markos' latest seem fine to me. I'd perhaps change the word order in 30:
30. τὸ τοὺς ναύτας φυλάττεσθαι ἔτι φρόνιμον.
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