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Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

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Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Scribo » Thu May 14, 2009 9:46 am

Why? I see so many references to it here, from what I assume are native English speakers, so why buy this textbook in another language?
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Thu May 14, 2009 7:17 pm

The original English version of Athenaze I found from reviewing its pages online to be exceptionally poor confronted with the gloriously profitable and pleasant experience I had in learning Latin through Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. LLPSI is litterally fully illustrated, and through those illustrations depicts all that one need learn completely through context, without the need for any translation into the vernacular whatsoever.

When Ørberg and I were exchanging a few brief emails some years ago, whereupon I thanked him in Latin for teaching me, although indirectly, I asked him if he had designed such a book for Greek. On the subject he was audibly mute.

My Greek learning was quite limited to the standard sorts of texts that Textkit, thank heavens, offers, but I did not have quite the patience, and wanted to learn Greek in Greek.

When I was in Florence studying some elementary Greek, my tutor informed me that there was such a book that teaches Greek in Greek with pictures and very clear marginal notes, Athenaze. I purchased it in a bookstore there, and though I have yet to dedicate serious time to Greek study, I am delighted that I can read the New Testament with minimal effort.

When it came time for me to move on to the second volume, the only version I found online was empty of any significant illustrations. I found this disappointing: memory is quite intrinsically tied to graphics.

And then finally here in this forum I asked about this discrepancy, to realize that the original was composed by an Englishman (or two), and that Miraglia the famous Italian classicist had piggy-backed on the original Athenaze to take the Ørberg method which he adores as much as I do, and applied it fully to Athenaze. The result is a text which teaches Greek in Greek, and that contains detailed grammatical explanations in Italian; but I find they are somewhat unnecessary, fortunately. The Italian Athenaze is not quite as fully integrated or perfected as LLPSI (my Macintosh-computer-loving mind makes the comparison of an Apple with its unified OS and hardware, while a PC has different hardware and software designers), but it is still many leagues farther advanced and improved over the English Athenaze, in my opinion.

So in my excedingly long-winded response to your question, I guess that the reason others here want the Italian version of Athenaze, even if they don't know Italian (yet), is to recapture the LLPSI experience.

My dear friend who still lives in Florence did me the enormous favor of sending me the second volume of Athenaze last Christmas, and I am most grateful to be able to continue with it.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Thu May 14, 2009 7:44 pm

For me, the Italian Athenaze works because I do not need the grammar lessons. I studied Greek years ago and I teach Latin now, so the difficulties of an inflected system are not that difficult to me. Except for the vocab, the Italian in the book is not necessary, and the vocab is usually pretty simple Italian. I, like Luke the Horse, also find the Orberg approach rather pleasant. I am 30 and no longer willing to sit around with flash cards and waste time on meaningless sentences. I like to learn through stories. So, the Italian Athenaze is a fit for me. Would an ancient language novice be able to go through the Italian Athenaze no problem? I do not think so.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Fri May 15, 2009 3:07 am

Heh, "the Horse" ?
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Scribo » Fri May 15, 2009 11:55 am

Men,

I have been done a great wrong, for I have a Greek exam next Wednesday and am struggling incessantly in order to memorise and be able to utilise the grammar in time despite a years of instruction, whereas I do learn rather quickly from the LL method.

Alas, if only I had but known earlier...
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Fri May 15, 2009 6:53 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:Heh, "the Horse" ?


I know that eques, unlike equus, means calvaryman/knight/equestrian, but Luke the Calvaryman just does not have the ring that Luke the Horse has. :D In my defense, WORDS does mention horse as the last of ten options.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Fri May 15, 2009 7:12 pm

Scribo wrote:I have been done a great wrong, for I have a Greek exam next Wednesday and am struggling incessantly in order to memorise and be able to utilise the grammar in time despite a years of instruction, whereas I do learn rather quickly from the LL method.



I have never learned a language using only the Orberg approach, so I cannot say for sure, but I do not think that having the Italian Athenaze would make your exam any easier. Orberg teaches your mind to internalize the language. I think it would be difficult to get all the inflections and syntax using only Orberg.


With that said, you can know all the grammar in the world and still struggle when reading. I find Orberg perfect for someone who does not need the grammar/inflection lessons as much as reading lessons. If I were still teaching Latin I-III, I would like to use Lingua Latin Book I for the first quarter of Latin III. I think it would be the perfect transition from Textbook Latin to Real Latin. I would be reticent to use Orberg for a regular High School Latin I class (Texkit community please forgive my blasphemous suggestion). However, I have used Orberg with 5th graders whom I thought too immature to study the inflections/vocabulary the way they need to be studied.

On a side note, I will continue the Lingua Latina experiment next year. We just started the Lingua Latina in the 4th quarter, so we are not far. I anticipate a brick wall around Chapter 10. We will see.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Sat May 16, 2009 12:10 pm

I think it would be difficult to get all the inflections and syntax using only Orberg.


I beg to differ! Although there are some who require Latin grammar explained to them in their native language, I did not feel I was one of them. In fact, after finishing LLPSI, I discovered I had full command of the various Latin constructions, but had little idea what they were called! like "ablative of instrument," "indirect speech," and so forth. Reading Latine Disco was effective in filling these terminological gaps.

I do agree with you that teaching with LLPSI, as I have done this year, has presented a number of challenges. I have successfully overcome most of these in the past couple months (sadly at the end of the term), especially with 7th and 8th grade, but approximately half of the 6th graders advance themselves with no help from me at all, while the other half do not respond to any Latin teaching method, much less LLPSI. I think it's a maturity thing.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Sat May 16, 2009 12:39 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:while the other half do not respond to any Latin teaching method, much less LLPSI.



Something is with this age. I have been banging my head into a wall all year. I can tell a group of students about a vocab quiz three days down the road and 10 out of 20 will fail miserably. If half of your class is flunking vocab , how do you progress? These 10 also refuse to do any homework. What do you do? I have flunked them repeatedly. All their parents do is ask me what they can do? It is 6th grade. It is not rocket science. Take the little &*%#$@S i-pod, television, and phone away and make him do homework. What a difficult thing to figure out.

Likewise, I have students who are like Dory the fish in Finding Nemo. I have been telling them what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person is all year, ever week. Yet, some still do not know what it is. My God. There is nothing to understand in this. I really believe that half of my students are mentally deficient. I know their parents are, so it should not surprise me.



Luke the Horse: "I do agree with you that teaching with LLPSI, as I have done this year, has presented a number of challenges."

What difficulties have you run into? My theory is that Orberg advances too quickly for little minds. I also think that understanding grammar via Orberg's inductive technique depends upon someone who already understands grammar.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Sat May 16, 2009 3:41 pm

paulusnb wrote:
Lucus Eques wrote:Heh, "the Horse" ?


I know that eques, unlike equus, means calvaryman/knight/equestrian, but Luke the Calvaryman just does not have the ring that Luke the Horse has. :D In my defense, WORDS does mention horse as the last of ten options.


Ah, but "Luke the Knight" does have a ring to it! :) Which was my intention all those years ago when I first registered here — my way of rendering "Sir Luke," before I knew of Latin praenomina (i.e. "Lucius").
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lex » Sat May 16, 2009 11:37 pm

paulusnb wrote:I have been telling them what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person is all year, ever week. Yet, some still do not know what it is. My God. There is nothing to understand in this. I really believe that half of my students are mentally deficient.


That's certainly possible, but if the students are taking Latin because they have to, not because they want to, another possibility is that they just plain don't give a ****.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Sun May 17, 2009 12:33 am

Lex wrote:That's certainly possible, but if the students are taking Latin because they have to, not because they want to, another possibility is that they just plain don't give a ****.



Sure. I just assumed that they did not want to be in any class. What makes Latin any different?
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lex » Sun May 17, 2009 7:17 pm

paulusnb wrote:Sure. I just assumed that they did not want to be in any class. What makes Latin any different?


True. But what 6th grader really wants to be in any class? I sure didn't. I'm just saying, they're not necessarily mentally defective.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Sun May 17, 2009 11:57 pm

Lex wrote:I'm just saying, they're not necessarily mentally defective.


No one likes to hear teachers complain about kids, but let me vent and amuse for awhile. It is the end of the year after all. Parent of child calls to complain that the literature we are reading is too sexual. The offensive piece? Macbeth. Lady Macbeth says "unsex me here you spirits that tend on mortal thoughts." There was no amount of explaining we could do to make the parent understand the story was not sexual. She is not re-enrolling her daughter. The daughter also happens to have failed my class each quarter. Did mom call at all? No. But as soon as Lady Macbeth mentions her pap, the phone rings. Now, this is about the parents, but the apple does not fall far from the tree. One of my 6th grade students turned in a Book Report on the Cat and the Hat. He really did not understand why anything was wrong with it. One of my 8th graders was using the 3rd grader adapted version of Tom Sawyer for her book report. She stared at me with a blank face when I told her it was adapted and therefore not acceptable. Another 8th grader uses "shooted" for the past tense. I have a 6th grader who spells end "in." There is a 7th grade boy in my class who is apparently only capable of mumbling when asked a question. His poster project about Abraham Licoln (SIC)--written in 6-inch letters-- was very enlightening.

Out of a class of 18, 4 students will not turn in a project at all. 6 more will be late.

I actually do not mind people being challenged mentally. I was never the brightest kid in the class, though I could read words that contained three syllables. Education is not about being smart. I just want my students to be literate. It is not the mind rot that bothers me as much as the soul rot. The girl that spells end "in" is actually kind of nice, and she tries really hard. However, I tell her to carry a dictionary in her bag at all times and whip it out whenever she needs it, and she only cries.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby thesaurus » Mon May 18, 2009 6:07 pm

paulusnb wrote: The Worst of Times...


Oh how you have disabused me of my pretensions to teaching. I imagine that in High School I could at least look forward to more impudence if not more intelligence...
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lex » Mon May 18, 2009 8:57 pm

Paulus,

In some of these cases, I can sympathize with you. But I guess my question to you is, if these kids have trouble with reading at their grade level, why in the world are you teaching them something as advanced as MacBeth? I was never force-fed Shakespeare until my sophomore year in high school, and could read at my grade level, if not above, and still thought Shakespeare's language was quite difficult. If I were an eight grader who reads at a fourth grade level, I would consider MacBeth a living hell. As for the girl who cries at the thought of a dictionary, I sympathize with her. If she doesn't know how to spell a word, how in the world is a dictionary going to help? You have to know how to spell a word to look it up!!!

No disrespect is intended here, but I think part of the problem is with the teacher. You have to meet kids where they are at, not where you wish they were. Otherwise, they'll never catch up.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Mon May 18, 2009 9:33 pm

Lex wrote:But I guess my question to you is, if these kids have trouble with reading at their grade level, why in the world are you teaching them something as advanced as MacBeth?


Reading at Grade Level is not the problem. On average, my students read 1 to 2 grades ahead of level. My real problem is the disparity between the top and the bottom student in my room and the motivational level of my average student.

As far as Macbeth being advanced, we listen to the play on tape and then discuss the hell out of it. The kids who want to get it get it.

I do not believe in waiting until the kids are "ready" for Shakespeare. One becomes ready for greatness by being exposed to it. Difficult language aside, the plot is really engaging and the kids love it. Shakespeare is not for bright kids only. Guy wants to be king. Witches tell him he will be king. Kills people to become king. Simple.


I just finished Julius Caesar and one of the highest grades was a 6th grader who reads at a 4th grade level. He just really dug the play. I gave him a comic book version of the play earlier int the year, and he carries it around with him.

I took a group of kids to see a local university production of Shakespeare and they loved it. How much did they understand? I do not know. But I watched Hamlet in 6th grade, and I did not really understand it, but I was in awe.

Lex wrote:As for the girl who cries at the thought of a dictionary, I sympathize with her. If she doesn't know how to spell a word, how in the world is a dictionary going to help? You have to know how to spell a word to look it up!!!


Don't be silly.

Lex wrote:No disrespect is intended here, but I think part of the problem is with the teacher. You have to meet kids where they are at, not where you wish they were. Otherwise, they'll never catch up.
.

I will ignore the rude diagnosis of my teaching abilities and say yes and no. Sure, you meet kids where they are to a degree. However, if all you do is meet your kids where they are, your kids will never get anywhere. You hold a kid to what they are capable of, not what they are willing to give. Like I said, the girl with the Spelling problem chooses to ignore the problem rather than find a crutch. The comatose student who wrote Abraham Licoln (Sic) chose not to consult a book. He knows he is a less than stellar student. He has the World Wide Web at his finger tips, and yet he turns in crap. These are choices, not abilities. Getting the title of your Poster project spelled correctly is not evidence of a superior mind, but of one who cares.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Mon May 18, 2009 11:19 pm

I agree with you fully on this, Paule. It's motivation. As I work at a high profile academic private school, most are quite driven. By the few who aren't are anchors, or worse. It is a matter of choice.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Tue May 19, 2009 2:14 am

thesaurus wrote:Oh how you have disabused me of my pretensions to teaching. I imagine that in High School I could at least look forward to more impudence if not more intelligence...



Ah, don't let a complaining teacher change your mind. I love teaching; it is really the only thing I have ever thought about doing. I am proud to be a teacher and plan on dying with a piece of chalk in my hand. I think I am just adjusting to a weaker student than I have been accustomed to in the past. Last year, 5 out of 12 of my Latin III students were National Merit Finalists. The profession needs Latin teachers bad, so sign up. The pay is not always as bad as advertised, unless you live in an overpriced city like DC :D . I could find you a job in New Orleans.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lex » Tue May 19, 2009 2:50 am

paulusnb wrote: I do not believe in waiting until the kids are "ready" for Shakespeare. One becomes ready for greatness by being exposed to it. Difficult language aside, the plot is really engaging and the kids love it.


I can tell you right now, that not all the kids find the plot engaging and love it. Some of them loathe it. You just don't give a flying ****, because you're too busy teaching what you like.

paulusnb wrote:
Lex wrote:As for the girl who cries at the thought of a dictionary, I sympathize with her. If she doesn't know how to spell a word, how in the world is a dictionary going to help? You have to know how to spell a word to look it up!!!


Don't be silly.


I'm not being silly. How do you look up a word you haven't a clue how to spell? If you can't look it up, how does a dictionary help with your spelling? This is common sense. A phonetic spelling dictionary would be in order here, not a normal one intended for finding the meanings of words, not their spellings.

paulusnb wrote:
Lex wrote:No disrespect is intended here, but I think part of the problem is with the teacher. You have to meet kids where they are at, not where you wish they were. Otherwise, they'll never catch up.


I will ignore the rude diagnosis of my teaching abilities and say yes and no. Sure, you meet kids where they are to a degree. However, if all you do is meet your kids where they are, your kids will never get anywhere.


Not true. If you try to meet them where they are not, you never find them, and they will never get anywhere. After you've met them where they're at, you try to stretch the envelope, sure, but not before that. (And I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was trying to be honest. If I try to be rude, you'll know it, and it won't be couched in false pleasantries.)

paulusnb wrote:You hold a kid to what they are capable of, not what they are willing to give.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.

paulusnb wrote:Like I said, the girl with the Spelling problem chooses to ignore the problem rather than find a crutch. The comatose student who wrote Abraham Licoln (Sic) chose not to consult a book. He knows he is a less than stellar student. He has the World Wide Web at his finger tips, and yet he turns in crap. These are choices, not abilities. Getting the title of your Poster project spelled correctly is not evidence of a superior mind, but of one who cares.


Why don't you quit whining about your students, and tell your admins that your class should be split into a gifted class that you can teach, and an LD class that can be taught by somebody who can be bothered? (See? That was rude!)
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Tue May 19, 2009 3:51 am

Lex wrote:I can tell you right now, that not all the kids find the plot engaging and love it. Some of them loathe it. You just don't give a flying ****, because you're too busy teaching what you like.


Wow. Thanks for telling me how my students feel. I will take you into consideration when I choose my books next year.

I think that Shakespeare's importance is out of my hands. History has settled this question, and so it is a moot point, regardless of my feelings towards him.

And you are right that, ultimately, I do not care if some of the kids loathe Shakespeare. It is not up to them. It is up to the adults in the room. I loathed taking a bath when I was younger. So what. I am forming their tastes, not catering to them.

Moreover, these kids loathe EVERYTHING, so why not torture them with something good.

Finally, the last school I taught at, a fairly decent private Catholic school, used Julius Caesar in the 8th grade remedial course. By using Shakespeare, I was going with what I saw work firsthand. And I figured, if 8th graders can do Julius Caesar, they can do Macbeth.

If you noticed, when I complained about my classes, the only problem I had with Shakespeare was from a parent. She was upset for religious reasons. These are probably the same reasons her children cannot read Harry Potter (but they can watch CSI). Though you do not believe me, for whatever reason, the students on the whole actually liked Shakespeare. I had my 8th grade act out Much Ado About Nothing. We watched the Kenneth Branaugh movie at the end. Many said it was their favorite story this year. I still call one kid Borachio. He loves it.

Lex wrote:I'm not being silly. How do you look up a word you haven't a clue how to spell? If you can't look it up, how does a dictionary help with your spelling? This is common sense. A phonetic spelling dictionary would be in order here, not a normal one intended for finding the meanings of words, not their spellings.


So, you have never used a dictionary for spelling? Correct me if I am wrong about my students (since you apparently know them better than I do), but they usually look up words they know in part. They have to check the little stuff. I before E stuff. Unless someone just cannot even begin to spell the beginning of a word, a dictionary works just fine.

Lex wrote: paulusnb wrote:You hold a kid to what they are capable of, not what they are willing to give.



Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.



??? It has everything to do with what you are talking about.

Lex wrote:
Why don't you quit whining about your students, and tell your admins that your class should be split into a gifted class that you can teach, and an LD class that can be taught by somebody who can be bothered? (See? That was rude!)


You are making it difficult to be polite. I actually thought I was speaking amongst friends. My mistake. This came up because I know that Lucus has been teaching this year, and I always like to pick fellow Latin teacher's brains. We were discussing the difficulties of teaching Lingua Latina.

I have a sharp tongue and I used it anonymously to criticize unnamed students in a Forum. I do not see why you are up in arms about this. You apparently are reading some elitist pretensions into my words (I can't be bothered with slow kids). Not true. I teach in Louisiana. We are all slow here. ( It is the heat). I can't be bothered by students who do not do homework and do not turn in assignments. I do not have one student failing who has completed 5 out of 20 homework assignments. The three that are failing me have not turned in Book Reports all year. I have been teaching 5 years and have not failed a student until this year.
Last edited by paulusnb on Tue May 19, 2009 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby jaihare » Tue May 19, 2009 10:21 am

Lex wrote:I'm not being silly. How do you look up a word you haven't a clue how to spell? If you can't look it up, how does a dictionary help with your spelling? This is common sense. A phonetic spelling dictionary would be in order here, not a normal one intended for finding the meanings of words, not their spellings.

This is what I thought when I was in school. When we didn't know how to spell something, we would ask the teacher and she would respond: "Look it up in the dictionary." We all just thought exactly like what you said: "If we don't know how to spell it, how are we going to find it?!" But, really, there is a method to this madness. You have to take stabs in the dark. You can kinda guess at several possible spellings. From there, you start to look those POSSIBILITIES up in the dictionary one by one. If you don't find the first, it isn't spelled that way, and so on. Also, looking at the words around what you aimed for. I was appalled when my teacher said to do this, but I learned how to use a dictionary because of it. If it hadn't been that sixth-grade classroom and a teacher that forced me to use the tools at my disposal rather than depend on her for my correction, I would probably never have learned to properly search a dictionary and to become more independent in developing my language skills.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Lucus Eques » Tue May 19, 2009 2:58 pm

I have to tell you, Lex, that I feel the way you're coming off here is a bit inflamed, and that you seem to be attacking Paulus ad hominem — whether or not this is your intention, I do not know, but I thought you should be made aware of my perception, which may also be the same as Paulus' and others'.

Lex wrote:Why don't you quit whining about your students, and tell your admins that your class should be split into a gifted class that you can teach, and an LD class that can be taught by somebody who can be bothered? (See? That was rude!)


I have attempted just such a thing for one of my Latin classes, but it's much easier said than done. Have you ever worked perchance in a school? Unfortunately, practicalities of administration and organization take precedent over the needs of the many, or the few, for that matter. In one class of mine, I have many self-motivated students who have always been dedicated, mature, and who can teach themselves with LLPSI. The other half are distracted, and often disruptive. Allowing the self-motivated ones to teach themselves in another room is what I only just finally achieved at the end of the year, but it took many favors exchanged with another teacher and other deals with other teachers who had classrooms available in order to pull it off. It wasn't easy. And I had administrators breathing down my neck about it.

You suggest getting another teacher for the other half of students -- where will you find him or her? How much will this teacher be paid? As I'm the only other teacher here who knows Latin, although I would love to spend more time (or any quality time) with the gifted ones in furthering their education, where is the time? Their schedules are packed as tightly as possible to prevent them from having free time in which to goof around (unlike high school).

It's not as simple as dividing up the class, especially in middle school where the object is usually to keep everyone together -- my advanced 6th graders, for example, can't just skip to 7th grade Latin, because what will they do in 8th grade? The high school is miles away.

So altho, Lex, I agree with you in fundamental principle, the application of ad hoc reorganization is extremely difficult in an already overburdened schedule.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Prometheus » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Where could I order the Italian Athenaze?

Lee
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby paulusnb » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:45 am

Here. It is from Italy though. They are not known for their speed. :(

http://www.unilibro.com/find_buy/produc ... 35&idaff=0


Someone here once bought it from Abebooks.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Gil » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:32 pm

http://www.vivariumnovum.it/Libri_greci.htm

I bought it from this site and it took a week for it to arrive here (the US).
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Scribo » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:09 pm

My my, my thread seemed to have caused all sorts unexpectedly...damn. For what it's worth, I personally think Paulus sounds like a good teacher and even now, much older and at university, the teachers I remember with fondness were the ones that challenged us like that...
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby Prometheus » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:37 pm

paulusnb wrote:Here. It is from Italy though. They are not known for their speed. :(

http://www.unilibro.com/find_buy/produc ... 35&idaff=0




I ordered it through Unilibro, finally got it (after about a month), and I like it a lot (I was very impressed with the excerpts I downloaded from the Italian publisher's website). The only problem is that I hadn't realized that I was ordering Volume II, instead of Vol. I! My oversight. And I've probably sat on it too long to benefit from Unilibro's 7-day return policy. But no matter. I'm more than half-way through Vol. I, anyway (if any potential study-partners are out there, I'd love to hear from them), and I'll need Vol. II before long.

Thanks for the suggestion about the Italian Athenaze.

Lee
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby pmda » Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

[quote="Lucus Eques"]The original English version of Athenaze I found from reviewing its pages online to be exceptionally poor confronted with the gloriously profitable and pleasant experience I had in learning Latin through Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. LLPSI is litterally fully illustrated, and through those illustrations depicts all that one need learn completely through context, without the need for any translation into the vernacular whatsoever.'

Has anyone seen this:

http://www.amazon.fr/Polis-Parler-ancie ... 687&sr=8-1
Last edited by pmda on Sun May 30, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby pmda » Tue May 25, 2010 8:29 pm

The author has told me that an English language version is planned next year. I say 'English' but from what I undestand it may be close to Orberg - presumably you need a little vernacular for this - otherwise it'd all be Greek - if you see what I mean :)
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Re: Why the ITALIAN Athenaze?

Postby philplus » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:24 pm

pmda wrote:The author has told me that an English language version is planned next year. I say 'English' but from what I undestand it may be close to Orberg - presumably you need a little vernacular for this - otherwise it'd all be Greek - if you see what I mean :)


Great to hear this, though I would really prefer notes in Latin. I think all in Greek is not a bad idea, afterall.8)
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