Textkit Logo

who can make sens

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

who can make sens

Postby medea » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:00 am

No problem for the grammar, but the sens of the phrase follow, I've no idea:

ὤδινεν ὄρος, εἶτα μῖν ἔτεκεν


merci beaucoup, tout le monde.
medea
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:03 pm

Re: who can make sens

Postby vir litterarum » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:00 am

You would need to provide more context, but it seems the phrase means "he/she/it was in travail of a mountain, then begot it." i.e. after struggling in the birthing process, he/she/it was able to give birth to a mountain. however, you really need to provide more context.
vir litterarum
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Oberlin, Ohio

Re: who can make sens

Postby IreneY » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:51 pm

Ah, I know this one (one of my mother's favourites). It's when someone talks big and then doesn't deliver, or, in general, if there are great expectations for something that turns out to be insignificant.
A film everyone expects to be great and is a flop, a goverment talking about the great changes to be made that turn out to be nothing, that kind of thing.
While it may be a disturbing mental image, it's like a woman who screams her head out like she's going to give birth to a HUGE baby and when the baby does come out it's so tiny he/she comes out without any effort whatsoever.
User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)

Re: who can make sens

Postby annis » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 pm

Is the accenting of μῖν correct? Do we know what this is from?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re: who can make sens

Postby IreneY » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:03 pm

I cannot see the accented characters so I cannot tell you for sure. It's supposed to be the accusative of μῦς (that's μυς with a circumflex), "μυν" (with the same accent mark).

edit: I think it's just a saying (I only know it as such). You can check here
User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)

Re: who can make sens

Postby bedwere » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:11 pm

In Italy there is a proverb: la montagna ha partorito il topolino, the mountain gave birth to a mouse. :D
User avatar
bedwere
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: Didacopoli in California

Re: who can make sens

Postby medea » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:17 am

thanx IreneY, think that's what I want :)

Yes, bedwere, word-by-word translation is just as yours, but I wondered if there's certain signification special in consideration of the background greek.

Hi, annis, the quotation comes from the manual <teach yourself: ancient greek complete course >. I think there's no spelling error, but I'd like check it again after I turn back to my school, and tell u the page. There's no context, but a proverb in the exercise.

Thanx every body here, C U
medea
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:03 pm

Re: who can make sens

Postby Swth\r » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:01 pm

bedwere wrote:In Italy there is a proverb: la montagna ha partorito il topolino, the mountain gave birth to a mouse. :D


Quite the same. It means "a mountain had the pains of childbirth, Zeus was afraid, and (in the end) it gave birth to a mouse"

After quick search in TLG the following passages (among others) are some of the sources where the phrase can be found in. I suppose it was some short of folk saying (?), meaning "quite a labor for an insignificant/unimportant result". I find Lucian's passage from "How History must be written" very illuminating.

Sotadea, Fragmenta
Fragment 22, line 1

Τὴν μῆνιν ἄειδε, Μοῦσα, τὴν Ἀχιλλέως μοι
Σαρκικὸν γὰρ εἶχε χρῶτα καὶ τὸ δέρμ' ὅμοιον.
Βλαστεῖ δ' ἐπὶ γῆς δένδρεα παντοῖα φύοντα.
Χὠς παῖς ποκα, πότνα, σὸς ἐφ' ἅμμιν τερατουργεῖς.
Ὤδινεν ὄρος, Ζεὺς δ' ἐφοβεῖτο, τὸ δ' ἔτεκεν μῦν.
<Καλῶς ἂν εἶχε νὴ Δί'>, εἰ μετὰ τὸ μαθεῖν
οὐκ ἦν παθεῖν ἃ δεῖ παθεῖν· δεῖ γὰρ μαθεῖν.
Εἰ δεῖ παθεῖν δὲ κἂν μάθω, τί δεῖ μαθεῖν;
Οὐ δεῖ μαθεῖν ἄρ' ἃ δεῖ παθεῖν· δεῖ γὰρ παθεῖν·
διὰ τοῦτ' <ἄρ'> οὐ θέλω μαθεῖν· δεῖ γὰρ παθεῖν.

Athenaeus Soph., Deipnosophistae
Book 14, Kaibel paragraph 6, line 22

καὶ Ταχὼς δ' ὁ Αἰγυπτίων βασιλεὺς Ἀγησίλαον σκώψας
τὸν Λακεδαιμονίων βασιλέα, ὅτ' ἦλθεν αὐτῷ συμμαχή-
σων, (ἦν γὰρ βραχὺς τὸ σῶμα) ἰδιώτης ἐγένετο, ἀπο-
στάντος ἐκείνου τῆς συμμαχίας. τὸ δὲ σκῶμμα τοῦτ' ἦν·
ὤδινεν ὄρος, Ζεὺς δ' ἐφοβεῖτο, τὸ δ' ἔτεκεν μῦν.
ὅπερ ἀκούσας ὁ Ἀγησίλαος καὶ ὀργισθεὶς ἔφη ‘φανή-
σομαί σοί ποτε καὶ λέων.’ ὕστερον γὰρ ἀφισταμένων
τῶν Αἰγυπτίων, ὥς φησι Θεόπομπος (FHG I 297) καὶ
Λυκέας ὁ Ναυκρατίτης (ib. IV 441) ἐν τοῖς Αἰγυπτια-
κοῖς, οὐδὲν αὐτῷ συμπράξας ἐποίησεν ἐκπεσόντα τῆς
ἀρχῆς φυγεῖν εἰς Πέρσας.’


Galenus Med., In Hippocratis prorrheticum i commentaria iii
Kuehn volume 16, page 702, line 2

ὃ δὲ πάντων τῶν εἰρημένων ἐστὶν ἀτοπώτατον, ἤδη σοι φράσω.
πολλοὺς μὲν ἀρρώστους τεθεαμένος, μυρία δὲ προειρηκὼς τῶν ἐσομέ-
νων, οὔτε διὰ τῆς πείρας ἔγνων ἐκ τῶν τοιούτων σημείων λύγγα προ-
λεγομένην οὔτ' ἐκ τῆς τῶν πραγμάτων φύσεως ἐνδεικτικῶς ἢ αὐτὸς
εὗρον ἤ τινος γράψαντος ἀνέγνων. ἀλλ' ἔστιν | ἡ προκειμένη ῥῆσις
ἐοικυῖα τῷ κατὰ τὴν παροιμίαν ἐν παιδιᾷ λεγομένῳ· “ὤδινεν ὄρος καὶ
ἔτεκε μῦν.”
πολλὰ γὰρ εἰπὼν παθήματα, τινὰ μὲν ἐσχάτως ὀλέθρια,
τινὰ δ' ἧττον ἐκείνων, ἔνια δὲ μέτρια, λυγγὸς πρότερον ἔγραψε πρόρρησιν.

Lucianus Soph., Quomodo historia conscribenda sit
Section 23, line 9

Καὶ μὴν καὶ ἄλλους ἴδοις ἂν τὰ μὲν προοίμια
λαμπρὰ καὶ τραγικὰ καὶ εἰς ὑπερβολὴν μακρὰ
συγγράφοντας, ὡς ἐλπίσαι θαυμαστὰ ἡλίκα τὰ
μετὰ ταῦτα πάντως ἀκούσεσθαι, τὸ σῶμα δὲ αὐτὸ
τὸ τῆς ἱστορίας μικρόν τι καὶ ἀγεννὲς ἐπαγαγόντας
ὡς καὶ τοῦτο ἐοικέναι παιδίῳ, εἴ που Ἔρωτα
εἶδες παίζοντα, προσωπεῖον Ἡρακλέους πάμμεγα
ἢ Τιτᾶνος περικείμενον. εὐθὺς γοῦν οἱ ἀκούσαντες
ἐπιφθέγγονται αὐτοῖς τό Ὤδινεν ὄρος.
Dives qui sapiens est...
Swth\r
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:51 pm
Location: Greece


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: akhnaten, Google Adsense [Bot] and 32 guests