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Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:08 pm

jaihare wrote:Would you believe that I'm still waiting for the textbook?!?! Hopefully it will arrive soon. How's the planning going?


Vexingly. And I will be far, far away from computers for part of this week, I'm afraid.
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Re: Study Group

Postby George Escher » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:31 pm

How do I officially join the Pharr group that is about to start? Is this post enough? I saw Jason's post of March 23, 2009.

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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:52 pm

Technically, we're supposed to join the Pharr-e listserv, but the listserv hasn't been working yet. We have nine people signed up on the listserv so far, but messages are not going through. I have set up a private e-mail group on my web domain specifically for this study, in case the Pharr-e listserv group doesn't succeed.

If anyone is interested in joining this mailing list (I will not transfer e-mail addresses from the Pharr-e group), just e-mail me at jaihare@jhronline.com and I'll add you to the list. From then on, you'll be able to send e-mail to homer@jhronline.com to exchange with anyone else who has joined the list. I figure that this can serve as a temporary replacement until the listserv is up and running. The only catch is that I do not have an archiving system for the e-mails. You will have to save them in your email box. Again, this is intended to be temporary for the sake of answering questions and getting orientated.

I haven't yet passed this with either of the guides, so if this is heinous in your eyes, please let me know and I'll rescind it. I am just so eager to get to work, and I think a temporary system would be nice to put into place. Any idea about a working schedule? Should one of us just throw something together that can be tweaked or adjusted later in the game?

Thanks,
Jason
Last edited by jaihare on Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Updated Study Group List

Postby jaihare » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 pm

Here's the updated* list based on those who have expressed interest in the new study group in this thread and other threads on the forum.** Not all have signed up for the mailing list yet.

Guides (2)
adelheid
annis

Participants (13)
anglicus
Cerfer
demetri
fordprefect
George Escher
hubert
ivansalgadogarcia
jaihare
miguelm
paulb
pommy
thesaurus
wallerrm

To Contact (1)
cb (about a friend who wants to join)

*This is now one month since my last listing of interested parties. We need to keep track of each other and get each other motivated. I think that will be much easier when we have a mailing list working and can send messages to each other.

**If I missed you, I'm very sorry!
Last edited by jaihare on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby demetri » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:15 pm

Thanks. I signed up for email list (at least I think I did). How do I join this group otherwise?
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:20 pm

Hey, demetri. I've got you on the list above. :) As you can see, the Valium really didn't work for me. I'm getting extremely eager, and having the book in my possession (Todah la'El!) just adds to the desire to get started!
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby demetri » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:38 pm

oops...too used to using Greek fonts to recognize my own username. :oops:
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:05 pm

demetri wrote:oops...too used to using Greek fonts to recognize my own username. :oops:

Maybe if I had quoted your post it would have made a difference? :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:27 am

I do apologize for the continuing delays. However, the delay has had one excellent side effect — it has given several other people time to join up (even if the list won't yet accept email).

jaihare wrote: Any idea about a working schedule? Should one of us just throw something together that can be tweaked or adjusted later in the game?


This is a very important discussion to have. In the past I've tended to favor a somewhat aggressive schedule, for the simple reason that it keeps people going. However, right now I think two lessons a week is about the best we can expect from auto-didacts, all of whom have other things they also have to do besides study (feed their families, say). Monday and Thursday due dates seemed to work in the past. We've also scheduled regular review days, skipping an assignment day, about once a month. This also seems like a good scheme to follow.

People should be working through Lesson 1 and 2 on their own — we have no good way to check that. Once the official session gets underway, we'll start with Lesson 3.

How many people are likely to do the English to Greek translations? I'd recommend it, but most of the time only a few people do those.
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Re: Study Group

Postby wallerrm » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:01 am

annis wrote:I do apologize for the continuing delays. However, the delay has had one excellent side effect — it has given several other people time to join up (even if the list won't yet accept email).

jaihare wrote:

How many people are likely to do the English to Greek translations? I'd recommend it, but most of the time only a few people do those.


I plan to do at least some of the English to Greek for each lesson.

About software and how to communicate our assignments: has that been decided? I know there was discussion earlier in the thread.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Lex » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:01 am

jaihare wrote:I am just so eager to get to work, and I think a temporary system would be nice to put into place. Any idea about a working schedule? Should one of us just throw something together that can be tweaked or adjusted later in the game?


:roll: Talk about tweaking... You seem to have developed a quick resistance to the virtual Valium, Jason, so I think now is the time to move up to the hard stuff....

Image

Seriously, though... learning to read Homer really well will probably take years. You won't bust a blood vessel waiting a few more weeks, will you?
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:37 am

annis wrote:How many people are likely to do the English to Greek translations? I'd recommend it, but most of the time only a few people do those.

No doubt about it. I'll do it as long as I can. :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby anglicus » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:54 am

annis wrote:How many people are likely to do the English to Greek translations? I'd recommend it, but most of the time only a few people do those.


I also plan on doing the English to Greek exercises. I've actually already worked through more than half of the North & Hillard book, so I should have enough stamina to keep up, I think.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:44 am

I've used to make english, italian and latin to greek translations, no problem for me. 8) :D
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby cb » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:07 am

hi, thanks for the update above. still not sure if she will join, but if she does, she will only be doing the english to grk exercises and not vice versa. cheers, chad :)
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Re: Study Group

Postby Cerfer » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:36 pm

Please add me to the list. I've signed up for pharr-e (it's already sending me digests).

Thanks!
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Re: Study Group

Postby demetri » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:12 pm

Cerfer wrote:Please add me to the list. I've signed up for pharr-e (it's already sending me digests).

Thanks!


You are getting digests? I selected that option but all has been silent.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:13 pm

demetri wrote:
Cerfer wrote:Please add me to the list. I've signed up for pharr-e (it's already sending me digests).

Thanks!


You are getting digests? I selected that option but all has been silent.

Exactly - getting digests of what? Nothing's going through the server! :?:

ΙΗΣΩΝ
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby fordprefect » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:42 am

I'd like to sign up for this as well. I picked up the book a while ago to work through on my own, but I haven't really got into it at all, as I'm a terrible self-learner.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:39 pm

fordprefect wrote:I'd like to sign up for this as well. I picked up the book a while ago to work through on my own, but I haven't really got into it at all, as I'm a terrible self-learner.

Well, just so you know. This group is based in self-study. We're just doing it together. ;) Hopefully that will be enough of a push to keep us all together! :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby hubert » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:22 pm

Hi everybody, I purchased the book sometime ago, I began to read it, before finding this forum; so I have joined the pharr-e list, I'll try to do the English to Greek translations too,
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:50 pm

I've created a file based on the table of contents in the Pharr text. I would like to be able to start assigning dates to each section, to get some kind of schedule started for the group (!!). I'm just wondering what you guys were thinking about the date break-down. I thought someone mentioned something about breaking each lesson into two sections, posting on Mondays and Thursdays. What is the suggested division?

Here's what I've created in the meantime and will be working from (unless someone wants to take over in the schedule creation): http://homeric.jhronline.com/pharr_e_sch.pdf. I'm just doing this because I haven't seen anyone want to take up the task. I'm definitely not professing any kind of predilection for schedule making or file creation, and in my sloppiness I don't have the patience for learning all of the ins and outs of LaTeX at this point. I hope the PDF is at least aesthetically acceptable. ;)

Regards,
Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:36 am

Guides (2)
adelheid
annis

Participants (13)
anglicus
Cerfer
demetri
fordprefect
George Escher
hubert
ivansalgadogarcia
jaihare
miguelm
paulb
pommy
thesaurus
wallerrm

To Contact (1)
cb (about a friend who wants to join)
==========

Hey, everyone!

We're about to enter the month of May, and the beginning of the study is getting closer and closer. Personally, I'm on the edge of my seat! Has everyone learned the alphabet and prepared themselves for the beginning of the study? We will not be assigning anything from the first or second lessons (sections 1-7 of the book). The first assignment will be from lesson III.

If you've got questions about things from the first two lessons -- questions about the alphabet, pronunciation, accentuation, etc. -- ask them on the forum. Don't forget to sign up for Pharr-e group. Additionally, I've put together a temporary e-mail group. Members can post by sending e-mails to homer@jhronline.com, but to get on the list just send me an e-mail at jaihare@jhronline.com. This list will be deleted as soon as the Pharr-e group begins to function.

Regards,
Jason
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:35 am

If I don't get some kind of response on here, I'm gonna pull my hair out! Come on, folks! This is Greek we're talking about!
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby hubert » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:52 am

hello,
the schedule is ok for me; for breaking each lesson, it could be: Greek to English translations for Mondays and English to Greek for Thursdays
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:22 pm

hubert wrote:hello,
the schedule is ok for me; for breaking each lesson, it could be: Greek to English translations for Mondays and English to Greek for Thursdays
hubert

Sounds great to me.

I'd like to get some feedback from Wm. Annis regarding the software. I unsubscribed my e-mail from the list and tried to re-subscribe, and so far I've been unsuccessful. If the program simply won't work (how long should we wait before we give up on it?), we should find an alternative. I realize that the benefits are great, but the benefits of a wonderful yet non-functioning program do not outweigh the alternative of something that actually works, even if it doesn't have the tweaks. I have been on many self-study lists that use collation software, and it has worked fine. If we cannot get the original plan to work, would everyone be willing to work on collation?

You just send your contribution to a collator, who checks the format, runs it through the software and posts the result on the forum. The resulting forum text lines up each person's contribution together and compares them. It doesn't provide an answer key or anything similar, but it does let us see how each person dealt with the exercises and ask questions relevant to our differences. What do you think?

Regards,
Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:27 pm

The schedule is also OK for me, on the way of working there's no matter for me, I have access to many lexica, so if you want I can work as a "style" or "verborum propietas" checker if the case is needed. :lol:
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby Cerfer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:08 pm

jaihare wrote:
demetri wrote:
Cerfer wrote:Please add me to the list. I've signed up for pharr-e (it's already sending me digests).

Thanks!


You are getting digests? I selected that option but all has been silent.

Exactly - getting digests of what? Nothing's going through the server! :?:

ΙΗΣΩΝ


Sorry, my mistake. "Digest" was in the subject line, but it was just a welcome email : Welcome to the "Pharr-e" mailing list (Digest mode).

BTW, the schedule is good.
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Re: Study Group

Postby wallerrm » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:01 pm

Jason, thanks for putting in all the hard work. The schedule looks fine with me.

As for the use of software: can anyone direct me to a site that will explain what software options I have for typing and reporting my English to Greek in Greek characters? (Someone may have answered this in the last couple of posts, but the discussion was already over my head.)
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:35 pm

jaihare wrote:If I don't get some kind of response on here, I'm gonna pull my hair out! Come on, folks! This is Greek we're talking about!


We already have one bald Hellenist at Textkit, and I'm not giving up my special status!

Since you are so eager, I will be contacting you in a day or two to help me do some test runs of some webbish exercise software.
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:37 pm

wallerrm wrote:As for the use of software: can anyone direct me to a site that will explain what software options I have for typing and reporting my English to Greek in Greek characters? (Someone may have answered this in the last couple of posts, but the discussion was already over my head.)


There are four sticky posts in this Greek forum — they always occur at the start of the list — explaining the various options for getting polytonic Greek (i.e., ancient letters with accents and breathing marks) on your computer.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:17 am

annis wrote:Since you are so eager, I will be contacting you in a day or two to help me do some test runs of some webbish exercise software.


בכיף - Send it as soon as you're ready. I'll do what I can to help out. :)

Do you know what's going on with the e-mail program yet? It's not exactly REJECTING e-mails, but it's telling me that they are like being stalled. Do they need to be released? Is it a moderated program?
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:32 pm

Annis,

By the way, what do you think of the schedule? When I get a more definite starting date, I'll fill in the dates down the side.

I've got another person that I'm going to be working one-on-one to get her into the rhythm of reading the alphabet and understanding the basics of accentuation and such before we confirm for sure that she's going to join us. We'll be talking over things on Skype, and we're already exchanging regular e-mails. She said that she's got the alphabet memorized over the last couple of days, but I haven't had a change to get with her on Skype. I will talk to her tonight, though. This is her first time getting into Greek. We have studied Hebrew together, which she caught on to very well. I've got good hopes for her Greek progress, too. I just want to check with her before I add her to the list. :)

I'm definitely ready to take off with this study already!

Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby wallerrm » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:04 pm

annis wrote:
wallerrm wrote:As for the use of software: can anyone direct me to a site that will explain what software options I have for typing and reporting my English to Greek in Greek characters? (Someone may have answered this in the last couple of posts, but the discussion was already over my head.)


There are four sticky posts in this Greek forum — they always occur at the start of the list — explaining the various options for getting polytonic Greek (i.e., ancient letters with accents and breathing marks) on your computer.


Thank you!
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Re: Study Group

Postby George Escher » Fri May 01, 2009 1:51 am

Jason,

I am ready to go. I still haven't figured out how to get the diacritical marks and aspiration marks over the letters, but I am working on it. Thanks for all your work in getting us together.

George
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Re: Study Group

Postby Lex » Fri May 01, 2009 2:14 am

George Escher wrote:I still haven't figured out how to get the diacritical marks and aspiration marks over the letters, but I am working on it. Thanks for all your work in getting us together.


The attached file will hopefully help with the Greek Polytonic keyboard under Windows. It is a text file, but it is zipped because the board won't allow .txt file extensions for some reason.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Fri May 01, 2009 2:51 am

George Escher wrote:Jason,

I am ready to go. I still haven't figured out how to get the diacritical marks and aspiration marks over the letters, but I am working on it. Thanks for all your work in getting us together.

George

Can I add you to the temporary e-mail list? If you don't mind, send me your e-mail address at jaihare@jhronline.com, even if you're on the list that I contacted tonight. :)

Yours,
Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Fri May 01, 2009 11:06 am

We now have several from the group on the temporary mailing list (almost half). There are still some people on the list who have not responded in any way — they haven't signed up on the Pharr-e group, nor have they written me for the temporary mailing list. We really need to have you all respond so that we can know exactly how strong the study will be. After all, it's not a list of 15 people that is important but rather the drive to learn that exists among the people themselves. If you've had a change of heart regarding the study, also let us know so that we can keep accurate track of who's going to be starting with us, and if you haven't jumped in yet — do so today!

Regards,
Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Study Group

Postby fordprefect » Mon May 04, 2009 11:08 pm

My copy of Pharr is on it's way still, so I've been trying to use the .pdf copy.

Why is all of the detailed information listed in the back of the book, while the exercises and such are in the front? I have to scroll the page all the way to the end and back constantly, it's driving me nuts.

Plus, the text is squiggly all the time, making it hard to figure out what accent/breathing marks are being used. Arghh!

/rant

:)
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Mon May 04, 2009 11:15 pm

fordprefect wrote:My copy of Pharr is on it's way still, so I've been trying to use the .pdf copy.

Why is all of the detailed information listed in the back of the book, while the exercises and such are in the front? I have to scroll the page all the way to the end and back constantly, it's driving me nuts.

Plus, the text is squiggly all the time, making it hard to figure out what accent/breathing marks are being used. Arghh!

/rant

:)

First off, many of us have the book. So, if you've got a question ask us!

Second -- you're on the mailing list, right?

I currently have Adobe Reader 9.1.0 on my computer, and it has a handy feature. Under "Window" on the file bar, you can open a "New Window". I used to (before I got the book) open one window for the exercises in the front of the book and another window for the grammar discussion in the back of the book. That made it a lot easier. If you've got an older version of Adobe Reader, you might consider upgrading.

Regards,
Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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