Demosthenes De Corona 14

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vir litterarum
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Demosthenes De Corona 14

Post by vir litterarum »

καὶ μὴν εἴ τι τῶν ἄλλων ὧν νυνὶ διέβαλλε καὶ διεξῄει ἢ καὶ ἄλλ' ὁτιοῦν ἀδικοῦντά μ' ὑμᾶς ἑώρα, εἰσὶ νόμοι περὶ πάντων καὶ τιμωρίαι, καὶ ἀγῶνες καὶ κρίσεις πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλ' ἔχουσαι τἀπιτίμια

Can anyone tell me why πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλ' is in the predicate position? It seems that it is just an attribute of τἀπιτίμια here, "sharp and great penalties."

Swth\r
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Re: Demosthenes De Corona 14

Post by Swth\r »

τἁπιτίμια (=τὰ ἑπιτίμια) πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα ἔχουσαι=

The adjectives are in predicat(iv)e position the one or the other way. Even if without the participle "ἔχουσαι", which stands as copula here, the substantive has the article, but the adjectives not. Here the verb "ἔχω" stands as copula. It takes two accusatives, the first is merely the object, the other is its predicate.

Note this:

attributive use =

1) τὰ πικρὰ καὶ (τὰ) μεγάλα τἁπιτίμια
2) τὰ πικρὰ καὶ (τὰ) μεγάλα ἑπιτιίμια
3) πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα ἑπιτίμια
4) τἁπιτίμια τὰ πικρὰ καὶ (τὰ) μεγάλα
5) ἑπιτίμια τὰ πικρὰ καὶ (τὰ) μεγάλα
6) ἑπιτίμια πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα

predicative use =

1) πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα τὰ ἑπιτίμια
2) τὰ ἑπιτίμια πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα
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vir litterarum
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Re: Demosthenes De Corona 14

Post by vir litterarum »

I know that they are in the predicative position, but it doesn't seem that they should be: πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλ' seem to me to just be attributes of ἔχουσαι that do not make any further predication, i.e. "...having sharp and great penalties."

Swth\r
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Re: Demosthenes De Corona 14

Post by Swth\r »

It is like saying:

... the penalties, which trials have, are sharp and great. :wink:

Remember that attributive adjectives give to the substantive a permanent (or understood as permanent) attribute; but predicat(iv)e ones give to substantives a temporary (or understood as such) attribute. In english (I am not 100% sure though :oops: ) you can say:

I fight having my sharp sword, (attributive)
or,
I fight having the sword sharp. (predicative) (Is it correct in english?)

In our case, the penalties are understood by Demosthrnes as temporary, and not permanent.

ἔχω ἑπιτίμια πικρὰ καὶ μεγάλα (I have sharp and great penalties = attributive)
ἔχω πικρὰ καὶ μεγὰλα τὰ ἑπιτίμια (the penalties that I have are sharp and great = predicative)

I hope I have helped you... Utherwise you need help from someone more knowlegeable than me in English. :?
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