Xenophon Cyropaedia 1.1

[vir litterarum]

ἔννοιά ποθ᾽ ἡμῖν á¼￾γένετο ὅσαι δημοκÏ￾ατίαι κατελÏ￾θησαν ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλως πως βουλομένων πολιτεÏ￾εσθαι μᾶλλον á¼¢ á¼￾ν δημοκÏ￾ατίᾳ, ὅσαι Ï„á¾½ αὖ μοναÏ￾χίαι, ὅσαι τε ὀλιγαÏ￾χίαι ἀνῄÏ￾ηνται ἤδη ὑπὸ δήμων, καὶ ὅσοι Ï„Ï…Ï￾αννεῖν á¼￾πιχειÏ￾ήσαντες οἱ μὲν αá½￾τῶν καὶ ταχὺ πάμπαν κατελÏ￾θησαν, οἱ δὲ κἂν á½￾ποσονοῦν χÏ￾όνον ἄÏ￾χοντες διαγένωνται, θαυμάζονται ὡς σοφοί τε καὶ εá½￾τυχεῖς ἄνδÏ￾ες γεγενημένοι. πολλοὺς δ᾽ á¼￾δοκοῦμεν καταμεμαθηκέναι καὶ á¼￾ν ἰδίοις οἴκοις τοὺς μὲν ἔχοντας καὶ πλείονας οἰκέτας, τοὺς δὲ καὶ πάνυ ὀλίγους, καὶ ὅμως οá½￾δὲ τοῖς ὀλίγοις τοÏ￾τοις πάνυ τι δυναμένους χÏ￾ῆσθαι πειθομένοις.

My question only concerns the last sentence of this passage beginning at "πολλοὺς δ᾽ á¼￾δοκοῦμεν."could someone translate it for me and explain in particular how "καὶ ὅμως οá½￾δὲ" and "πειθομένοις"? I know there is a textual problem here, but I decided to use the Teubner text because of its universally esteemed accuracy.

[modus.irrealis]

Trying to be literal, I get something like

And we thought that we had observed many, that even in their private homes some have more servants and some have very few, and still they are not even quite able to have those few as obeying.

Basically I see ὅμως here as "still" or "for all that [they have few servants]". For πειθομένοις, I read it as a predicate adjective modifying ὀλίγοις which I took as the object of χÏ￾ῆσθαι (which I took in the sense "have" = "use" or "enjoy"). More loosely I'd translate it as something like

...and still they can't get those few servants to obey.

[Swth\r]

πειθομένοις is the predicate to ολίγοις (= object to χÏ￾ησθαι). You can consider it as an attributive participle used as an adjective (while ολίγοις is used as a noun).

For "όμως" I agree with "modus.irrealis". There is a concession in the meaning: many people have in their own houses either few or a little bit more servants, but (still) they cannot handle them as obeying (He means: even though those servants are few compared to a human society, a state or an army...).

I have already translated it in modern greek as "modus.irrealis". In English I would say:

And we thought that we had found out that many people have in their homes either more servants (than normally) or very few, but they still are not quite able to handle them as obeying.

I have omitted the meaning of "καί" in the phrase "καί εν ιδίοις οίκοις".

I began reading Cyropaidia before two months... I finished it in 4 days! I loved it! (See my signature also...)