Apol. 40a

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.
Post Reply
vir litterarum
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 722
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Apol. 40a

Post by vir litterarum »

ἡ γὰ? εἰωθυῖά μοι μαντικὴ ἡ τοῦ δαιμονίου ?ν μὲν τῷ π?όσθεν χ?όνῳ παντὶ πάνυ πυκνὴ ἀεὶ ἦν καὶ πάνυ ?πὶ σμικ?οῖς ?ναντιουμένη, εἴ τι μέλλοιμι μὴ ὀ?θῶς π?άξειν.
P.A. 40a

is μοι a dative of interest or the object of ?ναντιουμένη?

Helma
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Apol. 40a

Post by Helma »



vir litterarum
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 722
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by vir litterarum »

Because the dative of possession emphasizes the possession as opposed to the genitive emphasizing the possessor, it does seem that it would better suit Plato's purpose of contrasting what once was the case with what is now the case, i.e. the loss of his prophetic constraint. The only problem I had was with transferring this idea into English. Isn't the dative of possession usually represented by "I had so and so" to differentiate it in translation from the genitive. So, if you have a predicate adjective such as "pukne," would you translate the passage, "I always had the prophetic faculty of the divinity which was quite frequent at every former time..."?

Helma
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:54 pm
Contact:

Post by Helma »

vir litterarum wrote:Because the dative of possession emphasizes the possession as opposed to the genitive emphasizing the possessor, it does seem that it would better suit Plato's purpose of contrasting what once was the case with what is now the case, i.e. the loss of his prophetic constraint. The only problem I had was with transferring this idea into English. Isn't the dative of possession usually represented by "I had so and so" to differentiate it in translation from the genitive. So, if you have a predicate adjective such as "pukne," would you translate the passage, "I always had the prophetic faculty of the divinity which was quite frequent at every former time..."?
I was not translating it as the prototypical possessive dative, where possession is predicated (esti moi ippos), because clearly here puknh must be predicate. But in slightly archaizing language you can have possessive datives used almost like an unemphatic possessive mou. '_My_ customary faculty -- The one that I used to have -- was frequent (pred.adj) and took exception at trifling matters..
You're right, translating it like that departs a little from the Greek, but unfortunately English doesn't have this construction..

User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)
Contact:

Post by IreneY »

I am trying to remember the English term for what I am about to describe but to no avail :(
Anyway, my first (and second :D ) instinct was to think of moi as what we call δοτική χα?ιστική. Terminology aside, this dative doesn't translate only as "for X's sake" ('for my sake' in this case) but also as, well something between dative of possession and a relative one if that makes any sense.

I still haven't decided how I would translate it in English although translating it as a possessive dative works fine for me.

Post Reply