Dear Hellenists:
I have some experience in Greek translation, but in this passage from Demosthene's First Speech against Philippus (First Philippica) it is very hard for me to understand and translate a turn of phrase . It is as follows:
?ῦν δ΄ ?π΄ ?δήλοις οὖσι τοῖς ἀπὸ τούτων ἑμαυτῷ γενησομένοις, ὅμως ?πὶ τῷ συνοίσειν ὑμῖν, ἃν π?άξητε, ταῦτα πεπεῖσθαι λέγειν αἱ?οῦμαι. (LI, "Conclusion").
Can anybody help me, please?
Thank you.
Help needed to translate Demosthenes
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- IreneY
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Well I'm in a bit of a hurry so I can't think πεπεῖσθαι through to be absolutely certain I got it right but on a first reading I get
?ῦν δ΄ ?π΄ ?δήλοις οὖσι τοῖς ἀπὸ τούτων ἑμαυτῷ γενησομένοις, ὅμως ?πὶ τῷ συνοίσειν ὑμῖν, ἃν π?άξητε, ταῦτα πεπεῖσθαι λέγειν αἱ?οῦμαι
Now (I leave δε untranslated since I don't know what comes before this sentence) although it's unclear what will happen to me because of that, however I choose to say that you are convinced that if you do (what I say) it will be to your benefit.
There is a chance he might be saying I choose to say that I am convinced but I wouldn't expect an infinitive for "convinced" in such a case.
A more verbatim translation of the first part would be "the things that will happen to be by these" I suppose.
Wait for a second opinion though (or till I have some time to really parse the sentence )
?ῦν δ΄ ?π΄ ?δήλοις οὖσι τοῖς ἀπὸ τούτων ἑμαυτῷ γενησομένοις, ὅμως ?πὶ τῷ συνοίσειν ὑμῖν, ἃν π?άξητε, ταῦτα πεπεῖσθαι λέγειν αἱ?οῦμαι
Now (I leave δε untranslated since I don't know what comes before this sentence) although it's unclear what will happen to me because of that, however I choose to say that you are convinced that if you do (what I say) it will be to your benefit.
There is a chance he might be saying I choose to say that I am convinced but I wouldn't expect an infinitive for "convinced" in such a case.
A more verbatim translation of the first part would be "the things that will happen to be by these" I suppose.
Wait for a second opinion though (or till I have some time to really parse the sentence )
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ThankyouIreneY
Très reconnaissant!
So, as you think, επ' αδήλοις οῦσι τοῖς απὸ τούτων εμαυτῶ γενησομένοις ... should be translated as "although it's unclear...", the preposition επί plus dative attributing a concessive sense to the participle clause.
It sounds reasonable and suitable.
Just in case, I'll keep waiting for another opinion (including yours, of course!)
Thank you again.
So, as you think, επ' αδήλοις οῦσι τοῖς απὸ τούτων εμαυτῶ γενησομένοις ... should be translated as "although it's unclear...", the preposition επί plus dative attributing a concessive sense to the participle clause.
It sounds reasonable and suitable.
Just in case, I'll keep waiting for another opinion (including yours, of course!)
Thank you again.
- IreneY
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Rien du tout really
I see no one else has given his/her opinion and when it comes to πείθεσθαι no new epiphany has come my way.
As to the first part, well, yes, "although" seems to me the best possible translation although there's an element of time there. It's quite usual for participles to have more than one meaning but, for me, the most prominent one is that of "even though". The main reason I go for it is the context and knowing how Demosthenes used to speak. It's the meaning of επ' αδήλοις (yeap, too lazy to go for ancient Greek diacritics ) coupled with εμαυτώ that makes me translate it so.
It's like saying: look at me, I might be in danger because of it but that won't stop me from bravely asking you to go ahead and do it since you'll profit from it. Typical Demosthense if you ask me (in case it's not EXTREMELY OBVIOUS I just don't like him at all)
I see no one else has given his/her opinion and when it comes to πείθεσθαι no new epiphany has come my way.
As to the first part, well, yes, "although" seems to me the best possible translation although there's an element of time there. It's quite usual for participles to have more than one meaning but, for me, the most prominent one is that of "even though". The main reason I go for it is the context and knowing how Demosthenes used to speak. It's the meaning of επ' αδήλοις (yeap, too lazy to go for ancient Greek diacritics ) coupled with εμαυτώ that makes me translate it so.
It's like saying: look at me, I might be in danger because of it but that won't stop me from bravely asking you to go ahead and do it since you'll profit from it. Typical Demosthense if you ask me (in case it's not EXTREMELY OBVIOUS I just don't like him at all)
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