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Eumenides 59

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Eumenides 59

Postby anphph » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 pm

Eumenides 57-59 wrote:τὸ φῦλον οὐκ ὄπωτα τῆσδ' ὁμιλίας,
οὐδ' ἥτις αἶα τοῦτ' ἐπεύχεται γένος
τρέφουσ' ἀνατεὶ μὴ μεταστένειν πόνον.


I'm slightly lost in this passage. This is what I have:

a)
I have never seen the origin of [such a] coven,
Nor [do I know] what land boasts of rearing [their] kind
without harm ... [and ] without further labour (?).

b)
I have never seen the origin of [such a] coven,
Nor [do I know] what land boasts, having rearing [their] kind
without harm, ... of not lamenting its labor after the fact (?).

In a) I'm taking μὴ μεταστένειν as an infinitive of finality, and in b) I'm taking γένος as the object of both τρέφουσα and somehow (?) related to an infinitive sentence related to ἐπεύχεται.

Thank you very much in advance.
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby jeidsath » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:58 pm

This is just a guess to get in before someone who knows better answers, but I thought on first reading that ἥτις αἶα was the subject of μεταστένειν. So:

Any such land raising this family/kind does not boast that it is done painlessly not regretting labor.

EDIT: Better phrasing of the above would be: "does not boast to painlessly not regret the labor." Ie., "nobody says it's easy to do!"
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby Hylander » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:01 pm

Basically, I think you have it right, anphph, "and I do not see/know what land, having given birth to this race without [suffering] harm, [can] claim [ἐπεύχεται] that it does not groan afterwards [from] its labor."

The literal meaning of στενω seems better here -- the idea, I think, is groaning from labor pains. It's used as a transitive verb, with object πόνον.

τρέφουσ' ἀνατεὶ is really part of the claim: the land cannot claim that it gave birth without harm and does not groan from its labor afterwards. But this is very compressed.

ὄπωπα (not ὄπωτα) means "have seen" in the first clause and "know" in the second.
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby jeidsath » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 pm

Why is ἥτις αἶα nominative with a finite verb ἐπεύχεται? I had assumed something like this: "I am not aware of..., nor boasts any land..." But apparently that's not right? I assume you both know something that I don't here.
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κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby Hylander » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:40 pm

"I don't know what land can claim/boast that . . . " Indirect question.

Could be asked directly "What land can claim/boast that . . . ?" Expected answer: "no land can claim/boast that . . . " and that's what this is saying, phrased as an indirect question.
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby anphph » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:18 pm

The literal meaning of στενω seems better here -- the idea, I think, is groaning from labor pains. It's used as a transitive verb, with object πόνον.


I had missed that. Thank you and jeidsath for that and for the rest of the clarification. As for the follow-up, I think it's clear from Hylander's post: ἥτις αἶα is subject of ἐπεύχεται in an indirect sentence. If this were Latin ἐπεύχεται would be subjunctive.
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby jeidsath » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:16 pm

I think I was actually having a very basic error of comprehension when I looked at it. I didn't recognize that ἥτις started a relative clause. Something like like this, I assume, if I were to add the verb and antecedent?

οὐκ ὄπωπα αἶάν τινα ἥτις...

However, basically this is like sentences mentioned in Smyth 2513:

ἔστιν οὖν ὅστις βούλεται ὑπὸ τῶν συνόντων βλάπτεσθαι;
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby Hylander » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:27 am

This isn't an ἔστιν ὅστις construction. Here ἥτις functions as an indirect interrogative pronoun/adjective in an indirect question. See Smyth 1263.

The understood perfect verb ὄπωπα, "I have seen", "I am in a state of having seen", functions in this clause (unlike the first clause) like perfect οἶδα, "I have seen and therefore know", " I know". οὐδ' [ὄπωπα, understood from the preceding clause]: "I don't know . . .", and then a more or less ordinary indirect question follows: "I don't know what land [can] claim/boast that it gave birth to this race without pain and [or] did not groan afterwards from its labor."

It's equivalent to saying "no land [can] claim/boast that it gave birth to this race without pain and [or] did not groan afterwards from its labor."
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Re: Eumenides 59

Postby mwh » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:47 pm

Joel, Remember that ὅστις, ἥτις etc. can be either the indefinite form of the relative pronoun, introducing a relative clause, OR the indirect form of the interrogative τίς, introducing an indirect question. Here it’s the latter.
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