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Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

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Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby Gryffin » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Hello,
Would anyone mind helping me with a small translation, please? I'm looking to translate a descriptor of Athena into classic Greek, similar to Pallas Athena. How would I say Athena the Wise, or Wise Athena? Would it simply be Sophia Athena? What about The Spirit of Athena or Athena's Spirit?

Thank you very much.
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Re: Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:33 am

This is not a solution to your problem. Nevertheless, an interesting text.

Ἀνθρώποις δὲ ἀγαθὰ δίδωσιν Ἀθηνᾶ σοφίαν <τό> τε νοεῖν καὶ τὰς δημιουργικὰς τέχνας.

οὐδαμῶς ἂν
ἐκεῖνο ἐπιστήμων ἀνὴρ τῆς σοφῆς Ἀθηνᾶς ὑπηρέτης,
ὃ ἔστι σοφὸς τεχνίτης, μέμψοιτο·
Last edited by C. S. Bartholomew on Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby Markos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:42 am

Gryffin wrote:How would I say Athena the Wise, or Wise Athena?

Ἀθηνᾶ ἡ πάνσοφος.
Gryffin wrote:What about The Spirit of Athena or Athena's Spirit?

τὸ τῆς Ἀθηνᾶς πνεῦμα.

θυμὸς Ἀθηναίας
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Ἀνθρώποις δὲ ἀγαθὰ δίδωσιν Ἀθηνᾶ σοφίαν <τό> τε νοεῖν καὶ τὰς δημιουργικὰς τέχνας.

καλὰ δῶρα καὶ ἐκ Θεοῦ.
οὐ μανθάνω γράφειν, ἀλλὰ γράφω τοῦ μαθεῖν.
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Re: Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby Gryffin » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:40 am

Markos wrote:
Gryffin wrote:How would I say Athena the Wise, or Wise Athena?

Ἀθηνᾶ ἡ πάνσοφος.
Gryffin wrote:What about The Spirit of Athena or Athena's Spirit?

τὸ τῆς Ἀθηνᾶς πνεῦμα.

θυμὸς Ἀθηναίας
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Ἀνθρώποις δὲ ἀγαθὰ δίδωσιν Ἀθηνᾶ σοφίαν <τό> τε νοεῖν καὶ τὰς δημιουργικὰς τέχνας.

καλὰ δῶρα καὶ ἐκ Θεοῦ.


Thank you. How would that read transliterated with English characters?
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Re: Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Markos wrote:
Gryffin wrote:How would I say Athena the Wise, or Wise Athena?

Ἀθηνᾶ ἡ πάνσοφος.


Markos,
Did anyone ever use πάνσοφος in reference to Ἀθηνᾶ? In tragedy πάνσοφος is used of Odysseus once and elsewhere of inanimate objects. It's found in Maccabees and Philo uses it a lot. Used frequently in the church fathers. Obviously the theological use of the word in the church fathers isn't backwards compatible.

One problem with the original question is the absence of historical context. During the period when the name Athena was used with personal reference, signifying a deity, πάνσοφος may not have had the appropriate connotations to be used as an epitaph for the goddess. There are encyclopedias of Greek mythology and dictionarys of Greek classics which would probably include lists of epitaphs[1] applied to Athena. I recall Elizabeth Vandiver discussing this topic in her lectures. παρθένος was mentioned in these lectures as an epitaph for the goddess.

[1]http://www.oocities.org/athens/ithaca/1736/epithets.html
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Re: Translation of "Athena the Wise"?

Postby Markos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Gryffin wrote:
Markos wrote:
Gryffin wrote:How would I say Athena the Wise, or Wise Athena?

Ἀθηνᾶ ἡ πάνσοφος.
Thank you. How would that read transliterated with English characters?

Athena he pansophos
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Markos,
Did anyone ever use πάνσοφος in reference to Ἀθηνᾶ?

You mean, before Gryffin? :lol:
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:One problem with the original question is the absence of historical context. During the period when the name Athena was used with personal reference, signifying a deity, πάνσοφος may not have had the appropriate connotations to be used as an epitaph for the goddess.

Excellent point. Context is King. Socrates might say σοφὴ Ἀθηνᾶ ἐστιν διότι οἶδε αὕτη μὴ εἰδέναι. Paul might say μὴ γαμησαμένη, Ἀθηνᾶ λίαν συνετὴ ἦν. I might say ἡ σοφία τούτου τοῦ κόσμου, οὖσα μωρία παρὰ τῷ Θεῷ, τῇ Ἀθηνᾷ ἐδόθη. So, really, only Gryffin can answer the question of how HE would say it.
οὐ μανθάνω γράφειν, ἀλλὰ γράφω τοῦ μαθεῖν.
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