Textkit Logo

Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.

Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby misellepasser » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:15 pm

After making considerable progress in my Latin, I have decided to start Greek. However, I am a bit disappointed with the pace of my textbook, Athenaze. It moves slowly introducing the morphology piecemeal. I'm not a fan of the gloss either since it distracts me from each passage and gives me little incentive to memorize certain phrases.

I read both Orberg's Familia Romana and Roma Aeterna cover to cover with Gildersleeve and Lodge's grammar for my initial phase of Latin with satisfying results.

Is there a good Greek textbook that doesn't baby a learner who is already used to an inflected language?

Thanks, you beautiful people!!!
misellepasser
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 7:38 pm

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby Dante » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:27 pm

Mastronarde "Introduction to Attic Greek"
User avatar
Dante
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:33 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby ἑκηβόλος » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:19 pm

If you don't need somebody to guide you through the learning, then start memorising the tables in:

Abbott & Mansfield, A Primer of Greek Grammar.

And the words from:

Baird, Greek-English Word-List.
I sang of the dancing stars,
I sang of the daedal Earth,
And of Heaven -- and the giant wars,
And Love, and Death, and Birth, --
(Shelley, Hymn of Pan)
User avatar
ἑκηβόλος
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:19 am
Location: Nanchang, PRC

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby jeidsath » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:46 pm

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... kin=mobile

Crosby and Schaeffer, linked above, is an old classic from the days when they expected you to have started with Latin first. There are probably some people on the boards who used it in school.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby Hylander » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:04 pm

There are probably some people on the boards who used it in school.


Me.
Hylander
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby Barry Hofstetter » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Hylander wrote:
There are probably some people on the boards who used it in school.


Me.


And me. At the last school where I taught both Greek and Latin, i used C&S with Athenaze as a supplement. It worked very well, since all my students had already had Latin.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Barry Hofstetter
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:22 pm

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby Markos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:25 pm

misellepasser wrote: I read both Orberg's Familia Romana and Roma Aeterna cover to cover with Gildersleeve and Lodge's grammar for my initial phase of Latin with satisfying results.

I'm not really sure what you are asking for. Alas, there really is no Greek Orberg, (yet) but would you call such an animal a straight forward Greek textbook?
Markos
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby misellepasser » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:57 pm

Markos wrote:
misellepasser wrote: I read both Orberg's Familia Romana and Roma Aeterna cover to cover with Gildersleeve and Lodge's grammar for my initial phase of Latin with satisfying results.

I'm not really sure what you are asking for. Alas, there really is no Greek Orberg, (yet) but would you call such an animal a straight forward Greek textbook?


C&S looks like a book that would fit me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-athenzae, but I would like to use a book that focuses on memorizing the morphology first with attendant exercises. Orberg was a great resource in getting a neophyte used to a highly inflected language plus both parts functioned as in depth readers so there was plenty of practice for all the cases/conjugations learned. Orberg wasn't straightforward like Wheelock's or TY Latin, but I think after getting enough experience with Latin I can survive the cold water jump into Greek grammar a little better.
misellepasser
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 7:38 pm

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:46 am

misellepasser wrote: ... but I think after getting enough experience with Latin I can survive the cold water jump into Greek grammar a little better.


This is mostly about koine, so it doesn't apply to classical Studies.

I agree with Marcos, it was not perfectly obvious what "a straight forward Greek textbook" would look like. The order of presentation in old traditional (koine greek) pedagogy moved in the direction:

morphology --> basic clause syntax --> advanced syntax --> exegesis (koine greek)


In the last 50 years there's been a lot of innovation. William LaSor Fuller seminary

... William LaSor’s Handbook of New Testament Greek, it combines reading lessons (vol. 1) with grammar, paradigms, and basic vocabulary (vol. 2). William LaSor uses the inductive method, studying directly from the text, rather than the conventional method of language study in which beginning students learn the rules of grammar and syntax and memorize vocabulary, often without reading the actual text. Instead of memorizing numerous forms that will never be encountered in actual reading, the student learns only what he or she encounters
.

Eugene V N Goetchius, Language of the New Testament was one-of-a-kind. The author was a linguist who taught New Testament an Episcopal seminary in Massachusetts. He was a colleague of Edward Hobbs who taught at Wellesley. Decades ago Hobbs told me he used copies of Goetchius' class notes while teaching Greek to Wellesley students. Goetchius' methodology is heavily indebted to transformational grammar (pre-Chomsky).

More recently, there's been a lot of Greek instructors moving into second language acquisition. Markos can tell you more about that. The traditional pedagogy hasn't died. Mounce-Wallace revival of J G Machen is showing a little fraying around the edges, with a lot of competition being published in the last two decades.

There's nothing straightforward about learning ancient languages. If you attended public school in North America (not the UK!) the probability of ancient language study was pretty low. It was an elective in high school 60 years ago, not too many people were electing it. The idea of learning Latin structure terror in the hearts our students who are struggling with modern French or Spanish. Ancient Greek wasn't even an option.

The classical school movement founded by Doug Wilson in Moscow, Idaho reintroduced classical languages into the curriculum at the primary level.
Last edited by C. S. Bartholomew on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
C. S. Bartholomew
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby jeidsath » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:04 am

Instead of memorizing numerous forms that will never be encountered in actual reading, the student learns only what he or she encounters


The idea that Greek verbs have three voices, three numbers, six tenses, four moods, infinitives, and declinable participles, is all clearly a vast conspiracy to sell textbooks. I'm happy that someone is finally fighting back.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby jeidsath » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 am

I meant that as a joke, but I honestly have trouble thinking what forms the author thinks are never encountered in reading.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: Looking for a straight forward Greek textbook.

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:49 pm

jeidsath wrote:I meant that as a joke, but I honestly have trouble thinking what forms the author thinks are never encountered in reading.


Depends on what you're reading.
The single page four color (+ Black) verb chart copyright 1949 California Baptist Theological Seminary, has a note at the top right corner:

* for the sake of completeness, many forms are given which did not occur in the New Testament.


Mounce published an entire hardback volume full of morphological tables with explanations. I don't have it. Looked at it several times. Mounce's presentation of the data was certainly a major improvement over James Hope Moluton & Wilbert Francis Howard, Accidence & Word Formation, T&T Clark,1928(?). Mounce is very good at what he does, traditional pedagogy first year greek.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
C. S. Bartholomew
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:03 pm


Return to Learning Greek