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What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

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What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby Phoebus Apollo » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:21 am

Βδελυκλέων

ἔσθ᾽ ὅπως ἄνευ μάχης καὶ τῆς κατοξείας βοῆς
ἐς λόγους ἔλθοιμεν ἀλλήλοισι καὶ διαλλαγάς;

Χορός

σοὐς λόγους ὦ μισόδημε καὶ μοναρχίας ἐραστά,
καὶ ξυνὼν Βρασίδᾳ καὶ φορῶν κράσπεδα
στεμμάτων τήν θ᾽ ὑπήνην ἄκουρον τρέφων;

The only option I can come up with for οσυς is that it's the masc acc pl agreeing with λογους - but is 'your discussions' the correct translation? (also I am aware that many texts write it as σοι - ie discussions with you, but I'm using the OCT which has σους)
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Re: What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby Hylander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:33 pm

The only option I can come up with for οσυς is that it's the masc acc pl agreeing with λογους


That's right.

Bdelycleon says, "Instead of fighting about it, let's enter into discussions."

The chorus answers, "Your discussions, you enemy of the people?" The chorus implies that discussions with Bd. will be impossible because the "discussions" Bd. has in mind will be one-sided and not discussions at all, and there won't be common ground.
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Re: What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby Phoebus Apollo » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:40 pm

Hylander wrote:
The only option I can come up with for οσυς is that it's the masc acc pl agreeing with λογους


That's right.

Bdelycleon says, "Instead of fighting about it, let's enter into discussions."

The chorus answers, "Your discussions, you enemy of the people?" The chorus implies that discussions with Bd. will be impossible because the "discussions" Bd. has in mind will be one-sided and not discussions at all, and there won't be common ground.

Thank you so much!
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Re: What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby Hylander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:30 pm

Don't be so quick to thank me. I was wrong.

Taking another look at this, I see that σοὐς has a smooth breathing over the υ in both Nigel Wilson's text and his apparatus. It's crasis for σοι ες λογους.

Wilson cites Hirschig "duce Bothe" as the source of the conjecture. According to MacDowell (who rejects it as unnecessary), Bothe's conjecture was σοι 'ς λογους.

So Wilson's new OCT really translates as "[Enter] into discussions with you?" But the thrust is the same.
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Re: What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby mwh » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:22 pm

Phoebus, Note that the crasis will be of σοὶ ἐς as distinct from σοι ἐς. With σε σου σοι there’s an important difference between σε without accent (enclitic, non-emphatic) and accented σέ (emphatic). Here since it’s the first word it can’t be enclitic, must be emphatic: “Into discussion with you?!”

(σοί dative picking up Bd’s αλληλοισι.)
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Re: What does σους mean here? Wasps line 472

Postby Phoebus Apollo » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:13 pm

mwh wrote:Phoebus, Note that the crasis will be of σοὶ ἐς as distinct from σοι ἐς. With σε σου σοι there’s an important difference between σε without accent (enclitic, non-emphatic) and accented σέ (emphatic). Here since it’s the first word it can’t be enclitic, must be emphatic: “Into discussion with you?!”

(σοί dative picking up Bd’s αλληλοισι.)
Hylander wrote:Don't be so quick to thank me. I was wrong.

Taking another look at this, I see that σοὐς has a smooth breathing over the υ in both Nigel Wilson's text and his apparatus. It's crasis for σοι ες λογους.

Wilson cites Hirschig "duce Bothe" as the source of the conjecture. According to MacDowell (who rejects it as unnecessary), Bothe's conjecture was σοι 'ς λογους.

So Wilson's new OCT really translates as "[Enter] into discussions with you?" But the thrust is the same.


Thank you both very much! I should have noticed that too, so thanks for the heads up :)
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