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Birds - Aristophanes

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Birds - Aristophanes

Postby testsuda » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Dear all,

This one is from the Comedy Birds of Aristophanes:

Τὸ δ' ἐμὲ (κορώνῃ πειθόμενον) (τὸν ἄθλιον) ὁδοῦ περιελθεῖν στάδια πλεῖν ἢ χίλια

I do not understand the construction here, Τὸ δ' ἐμὲ => Τὸ is Article, and ἐμὲ is Pronoun, right? Are they combined?

πειθόμενον = Participle Present Medio and goes with κορώνῃ, right?

τὸν ἄθλιον goes with ἐμὲ?

I guessed that there is ellipsis for this sentence. I got the English translation that = I am wretched when obeying the crow to go the way of more than thousand miles

Please kindly help,

Sincerely your,
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby bedwere » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:58 pm

I confess that I looked at the translation. Τὸ is neuter and cannot refer to ἐμὲ, which is masculine.
Τὸ refers to the whole sentence:
Τὸ
δ' ἐμὲ κορώνῃ πειθόμενον τὸν ἄθλιον ὁδοῦ περιελθεῖν στάδια πλεῖν ἢ χίλια.

Oh! The fact that
I etc. etc. !

Perhaps persuaded by rather than obeying to the crow. Yes, τὸν ἄθλιον goes with ἐμὲ.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby testsuda » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:43 am

Thanks Bedwere,

But what is the Subject of the Sentence? Does it has ellipsis?

Cause ἐμὲ is Acc, so I do not realize the construction here. Maybe it overcomes my current knowledge

Sincerely yours,
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby polemistes » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:09 am

I think the τό takes an inf+acc sentence, and the whole does not really constitute a complete sentence. The τό could be translated as "and the fact that", and then the inf+acc is what comes after "that". It would not be a complete sentence in English either, but still a valid utterance.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby seneca2008 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:31 pm

Τὸ δ' ἐμὲ (κορώνῃ πειθόμενον) (τὸν ἄθλιον) ὁδοῦ περιελθεῖν στάδια πλεῖν ἢ χίλια

I would construe Τὸ ....περιελθεῖν as an articular infinitive

wretched me obeying a crow going around more than a thousand stade of travelling.

Others translate this by beginning [To think] that I have gone round wretched me etc... which might imply an accusative and infinitive construction but I dont see quite how this works.

I have looked In Dunbar's commentary but he doesn't mention this line.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby polemistes » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:47 am

I have looked In Dunbar's commentary but he doesn't mention this line.

There is some reason to take the male gender for granted when it comes to editors of Greek works, but Nan Dunbar is one of the few women in this club.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby seneca2008 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:50 am

I would like to say that it was a typing error but even the first name didnt give me a clue that Dunbar is a woman. Alas she is no longer with us. As someone who takes a special interest in gender in ancient Greek literature I should have been more careful. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby anphph » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:55 pm

A bit late to the party, but as a matter of fact she does mention the line. Not that it adds much.
6 πλεῖν. Attic contraction of πλεῖον, cf. 1251, 1305.
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Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Postby mwh » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:19 am

Yes it’s an articular infinitive (ἐμέ subject of περιελθεῖν). The τό that introduces it is nominative—an exclamatory nom., without further construction. As bedwere put it, “Oh! The fact that I ... !” or more loosely “To think that I …”. It would mean much the same without the τό, but the τό bundles it all together as a single noun phrase. Grammatically it could have continued (e.g. "has been a complete waste of time" or "has driven me up the wall"), but as it is it's not elliptical, it's complete in itself as an exclamation, conveying his exasperation and all-round fedupness.
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