Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
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Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
censor in the sense of blame is so 19th century and confuses me when someone 21st century uses it other than of a junta cutting out sections of a newspaper.
warning people not to confuse αἰτία with xxx risks linking the two in the mind of someone how has not got the two confused and probably won't help someone who is already confusing the two. Taking extra time to explain such easily confused words (as you do) is helpful but its probably best not to say why you are doing so.
the sentence τριμεροῦς δὲ τῆς ψυχῆς λαμβανομένης κατὰ Πλάτωνα, τοῦ μὲν λογιστικοῦ ἀρετή ἐστιν ἡ φρόνησις, τοῦ δὲ θυμοειδοῦς ἥ τε πραότης καὶ ἡ ἀνδρεία, τοῦ δὲ ἐπιθυμητικοῦ ἥ τε σωφροσύνη καὶ ἡ ἐγκράτεια, ὅλης δὲ τῆς ψυχῆς ἥ τε δικαιοσύνη καὶ ἡ ἐλευθεριότης καὶ ἡ μεγαλοψυχία. utterly defeated me the first time I tried it about a year ago. It again defeated me when I tried again in preparation for watching your video. Your explanation, being very full, made it seem easy. I especially liked the way you didn't translate ἥ but described what it was doing in the sentence and what it related back to.
At the end you apologize for not using the metalanguage. That's not a fault. The meta language does convey a lot of information concisely at the cost of being confusing to those not fully on top of the metalanguage. As such it it is needed only when your space is constrained. You, however, explained everything in full which is why I liked the video.
Lastly please don't say something is easy. It is a little disheartening to be told that of something that for me was diabolically difficult before watching your video.
Overall - excellent.
warning people not to confuse αἰτία with xxx risks linking the two in the mind of someone how has not got the two confused and probably won't help someone who is already confusing the two. Taking extra time to explain such easily confused words (as you do) is helpful but its probably best not to say why you are doing so.
the sentence τριμεροῦς δὲ τῆς ψυχῆς λαμβανομένης κατὰ Πλάτωνα, τοῦ μὲν λογιστικοῦ ἀρετή ἐστιν ἡ φρόνησις, τοῦ δὲ θυμοειδοῦς ἥ τε πραότης καὶ ἡ ἀνδρεία, τοῦ δὲ ἐπιθυμητικοῦ ἥ τε σωφροσύνη καὶ ἡ ἐγκράτεια, ὅλης δὲ τῆς ψυχῆς ἥ τε δικαιοσύνη καὶ ἡ ἐλευθεριότης καὶ ἡ μεγαλοψυχία. utterly defeated me the first time I tried it about a year ago. It again defeated me when I tried again in preparation for watching your video. Your explanation, being very full, made it seem easy. I especially liked the way you didn't translate ἥ but described what it was doing in the sentence and what it related back to.
At the end you apologize for not using the metalanguage. That's not a fault. The meta language does convey a lot of information concisely at the cost of being confusing to those not fully on top of the metalanguage. As such it it is needed only when your space is constrained. You, however, explained everything in full which is why I liked the video.
Lastly please don't say something is easy. It is a little disheartening to be told that of something that for me was diabolically difficult before watching your video.
Overall - excellent.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
hi, can you please give a link to the video(s) that you've reviewed above? thanks! cheers, chad
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
My review is of the video by Scribo:cb wrote:hi, can you please give a link to the video(s) that you've reviewed above? thanks! cheers, chad
and the one by jeidsath will no doubt also interest you.Scribo wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0HwxPK ... e=youtu.be
jeidsath wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLc43tdCnUc
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Yes, what is easy is very subjective. I remember people telling me Homer was easy 20 years ago. They were comparing Homer to Attic Tragedy. But if you have never read Homer and your texts have been NT and LXX Homer isn't easy.daivid wrote: Lastly please don't say something is easy. It is a little disheartening to be told that of something that for me was diabolically difficult before watching your video.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Yes, what is easy is very subjective. I remember people telling me Homer was easy 20 years ago. They were comparing Homer to Attic Tragedy. But if you have never read Homer and your texts have been NT and LXX Homer isn't easy.daivid wrote: Lastly please don't say something is easy. It is a little disheartening to be told that of something that for me was diabolically difficult before watching your video.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
There is some doubt as to whether Aristotle is the real author of Virtues and Vices . I am curious as to why his authorship has been questioned but to be honest what what really interests me is whether it is written in the same style as the rest of Aristotle's works and does the author (whether Aristotle himself or one of his followers) favor the same idioms as Aristotle. In short is reading Virtues and Vices helpful in getting on top of the specific features of Aristotle's Greek.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Good question. I think I alluded to , but largely steered clear of this. Disputed authorship comes from two parts a) style and language being slightly later and b) philosophical content. The intro to the Teubner edition has a full essay. I can't really comment two much on the latter, but as for the former it just seems...simpler, less polished etc in style.daivid wrote:There is some doubt as to whether Aristotle is the real author of Virtues and Vices . I am curious as to why his authorship has been questioned but to be honest what what really interests me is whether it is written in the same style as the rest of Aristotle's works and does the author (whether Aristotle himself or one of his followers) favor the same idioms as Aristotle. In short is reading Virtues and Vices helpful in getting on top of the specific features of Aristotle's Greek.
Will this impact reading Aristotle? Not at all. First, it's always good to get practice in Attic Greek. Secondly, it's a good grounding in things like ethical vocab (which goes back to Plato) and thirdly what I loosely call the "lecture note" style one finds in philosophy. It's an excellent introduction and once I've finished going through this I'd like to do one or two bits on Aristotle proper just to hammer that in. Though, again, I'm no fan or expert on Aristotle so I can't be at all elucidating.
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Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
http://www.podium-arts.com/1440/aristotle-virtues-vices
Has any one seen this webpage? It has a good recording of part of the text as well as part of the text itself.
Has any one seen this webpage? It has a good recording of part of the text as well as part of the text itself.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
His audio is very good. Very clear and fluent with attention to vowel length, accent, and prosody.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
So the style differs from typical Aristotle in being less hard? In other words, as an introduction to the rest of Aristotle's work, the extent it differs from typical Aristotle makes it a better introduction.Scribo wrote:
Good question. I think I alluded to , but largely steered clear of this. Disputed authorship comes from two parts a) style and language being slightly later and b) philosophical content. The intro to the Teubner edition has a full essay. I can't really comment two much on the latter, but as for the former it just seems...simpler, less polished etc in style.
Will this impact reading Aristotle? Not at all. First, it's always good to get practice in Attic Greek. Secondly, it's a good grounding in things like ethical vocab (which goes back to Plato) and thirdly what I loosely call the "lecture note" style one finds in philosophy. It's an excellent introduction and once I've finished going through this I'd like to do one or two bits on Aristotle proper just to hammer that in. Though, again, I'm no fan or expert on Aristotle so I can't be at all elucidating.
As an argument against Aristotle's authorship it seems to me rather weak - as if it is unimaginable that the great man might choose to write some so down market and accessible.
However, as far philosophical content is concerned my knowledge of Aristotle is too superficial to judge even though I shall probably check them out those arguments in detail sometime.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
A lot of treatises transmitted under Aristotle’s name are suspect or downright spurious, often on philosophical grounds. The Nicomachean Ethics is the place to go for Aristotelian virtues and vices. But to judge from the opening (I haven’t read further) the style seems quite Aristotelian enough for your purposes. The classification system at the outset is characteristic in its form of presentation. The tripartite soul is Plato’s (Phaedo, Republic); Aristotle didn’t accept it.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
In which case I look forward to the next installment.mwh wrote:A lot of treatises transmitted under Aristotle’s name are suspect or downright spurious, often on philosophical grounds. The Nicomachean Ethics is the place to go for Aristotelian virtues and vices. But to judge from the opening (I haven’t read further) the style seems quite Aristotelian enough for your purposes.
That makes sense.mwh wrote:The classification system at the outset is characteristic in its form of presentation. The tripartite soul is Plato’s (Phaedo, Republic); Aristotle didn’t accept it.
It is possible that it was just through luck that Scribo managed to cover all my difficulties but does seem to me that doing it as a video has the advantage over hearing it in a classroom in that I can go back over it as many times as I like. Also Scribo clearly made an effort to cover every possible problem.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Ok, put the second one up. It's not...very good.
So my feeling a bit stuffy and nasaly turned into my being, well, I shan't admit to suffering illness but I'm somewhat out of sorts. I've had trouble getting the visual and the audio to match so the cursor is not always helpful but I believe overall it's functional. I've tried to pair down the amount of time I spend explaining stuff but somehow...somehow I've ended up at 20mins for less text and what seems like less explanation. I'm definitely going to have to do this one but I really want to press on to the end and then record a recitatio of the entire text first.
Like I said though, still working out the kinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHc-NXjqo6M
So my feeling a bit stuffy and nasaly turned into my being, well, I shan't admit to suffering illness but I'm somewhat out of sorts. I've had trouble getting the visual and the audio to match so the cursor is not always helpful but I believe overall it's functional. I've tried to pair down the amount of time I spend explaining stuff but somehow...somehow I've ended up at 20mins for less text and what seems like less explanation. I'm definitely going to have to do this one but I really want to press on to the end and then record a recitatio of the entire text first.
Like I said though, still working out the kinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHc-NXjqo6M
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Aristotle also wrote fictional philosophical dialogues for consumption by the general public, much as Plato did (only with himself as the main character: Plato would never have done that!), in a much more approachable style. It’s unfortunate that all we have of them is a few measly excerpts.
What happened to the original thread on this? Could some kind soul post the link to it please?
What happened to the original thread on this? Could some kind soul post the link to it please?
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
The original discussion of scribo's and my video happened in this thread: http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 40#p174387
Roger Masters claims that we still have some of Aristotle's dialogues: http://www.jstor.org/stable/191146
Roger Masters claims that we still have some of Aristotle's dialogues: http://www.jstor.org/stable/191146
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Thanks Joel. I stand by what I said there, but daivid makes an important counter-point: a youtube presentation (like Textkit posts) you can go back over whenever and as often as you want (if you can find them again).The original discussion of scribo's and my video happened in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63701&start=40#p174387
But I trust no-one has believed him.Roger Masters claims that we still have some of Aristotle's dialogues: http://www.jstor.org/stable/191146
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
You are correct: http://www.jstor.org/stable/191169But I trust no-one has believed him.Roger Masters claims that we still have some of Aristotle's dialogues: http://www.jstor.org/stable/191146
Still, it's a fun argument.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
@Scribo -- these are my thoughts on the second video. I'm being detailed because I think that will be useful to you, so it may look more critical than I intend it. Please don't take it that way! I appreciate the very hard work that's going into this.
0:00 -- It may be helpful to read through the texts (expressively) once at the beginning. A lot of things that aren't apparent in a written text can be signaled when read aloud -- clause breaks, what words fix together, etc.
1:00 -- The explanation of sentence structure is short and good.
1:41 -- 1:48: Why not drop the δὲ and μὲν, so as not to leave the listener hanging?
I don't like pronunciation of συντεινόντων -- the vowels are muddled. It's clearer to me if the των at the end of the word sounds like the τῶν that it's agreeing with.
This reading is a chance to signal what τῶν πρὸς εὐδαιμονίαν συντεινόντων is doing before you explain it. You could do it similarly to how you would modulate your voice for the noun phrases in "The house-on-the-left is ugly, but the house-on-the-right has charm."
I imagine that to get it to sound right it would help to memorize the passage and explain it to someone without the text in front of you. (My wife has been getting to hear a lot of Euthrypro lately.)
2:00 -- "τοῦ λογιστικοῦ τοῦ μέρος" -- nice extemporization, please more of this.
2:18 "You literally have φρόνησίς ἐστι παρασκευαστική." Again nice and simple, but maybe add τινος, and try to reduce the English verbiage introducing the phrase.
2:18-2:50: I would suggest illustrating this first my modulating your voice (see above), and then by using a simpler Greek sentence with simpler vocabulary, or a paraphrase. The visual explanation at the bottom is muddled. There are two things to explain 1) παρασκευαστική with a genitive, and 2) the noun phrase. Take them separately. For 2), bring it into the nominative, and then try a paraphrase?
2:50-3:10 I really dislike this picking out of English equivalents, making it sound to listeners like you are just picking a meaning at random from the dictionary. Teach the Greek, not the text. Why not use Xen. Mem. 3.1.6 as an explanation of παρασκευαστικός instead? It has mostly the same structure as this phrase and could be simplified. Or use παρασκευαστικός in an English phrase without trying to give a precise meaning.
3:10-4:00 You end up with the English translation at the end, but the explanation of how to get there was tough for me to follow (and I knew where you were going with it).
4:00 - 4:08 You were very good reading the φρόνησίς ἐστι ἀρετὴ τοῦ λογιστικοῦ clause, and this clause should sound exactly the same, among other things signaling to the listener that it’s parallel. Instead, it’s read with no modulation.
4:50-5:15 You spend half a minute here trying to explain the sound of Greek contraction instead of just saying it. I would simplify this to: “κατὰ ἥν (pronounce this as prissily as possible) contracts to καθ’ ἥν.”
5:55: Here another example of picking out an English meaning for a word (seemingly) at random. Don’t say that ὑπό can mean ‘by’ or ‘from’ and that you’ve picked ‘from.’ Instead mention that ὑπὸ <feeling> is a common idiom and illustrate with some simple examples.
6:00 — Your boxes showed up late, unfortunately, so it’s hard to judge how much sense they made in context. I liked that you were explaining δυσ- versus ευ-, but it would have helped to see more example sentences.
NOTE: For the rest of the video, the mouse is badly offset from the audio.
8:21-35 δυσέκπληκτοί εἰσιν. Try pronouncing these two words together once instead of explaining how you did pronounce them 20 seconds ago. Also, you may notice from your reading that it’s really the pronunciation of word accent that makes a word enclitic, not (just) how close they are together (words in a sentence are mostly said together), so I was happy to hear you stress -τοί.
9:02 “Notice how the article comes after the noun…” I understand what you are saying, but that was an infelicitous expression. This is not the article of φόβων moved to after the noun, rather it’s the article for περὶ θάνατον, agreeing with φόβων. Also “rhythm of the sentence” is similarly unhelpful. But then you follow everything by “ὑπὸ φόβων, which φόβων?, τῶν περὶ θάνατον, those regarding death.” That was perfect.
12:15 That’s a good illustration of “base desires” for English, but not so good for τῶν φαύλων ἡδονῶν, I would think. Our word “base” has picked up more moral connotations in this phrase. I could be wrong.
13:15 You mention that you aren’t glossing the philosophical headwords. It makes me wonder who the audience of this is supposed to be? Have your listeners learned these words from reading other texts, and therefore know quite a bit of Greek, or did they study a sheet of glosses before watching the video? If you expect them to have used glosses before watching this, how exactly are you getting them to “learn the words in context” just because you avoid saying them now. The solution here, instead of glosses, might be example sentences, simplified from real Greek usages of these words.
I listened to the rest, but didn’t stop and rewind very much (my notes would have been very similar to the above anyway). Regardless, thank you for the very hard work on putting this together!
0:00 -- It may be helpful to read through the texts (expressively) once at the beginning. A lot of things that aren't apparent in a written text can be signaled when read aloud -- clause breaks, what words fix together, etc.
1:00 -- The explanation of sentence structure is short and good.
1:41 -- 1:48: Why not drop the δὲ and μὲν, so as not to leave the listener hanging?
I don't like pronunciation of συντεινόντων -- the vowels are muddled. It's clearer to me if the των at the end of the word sounds like the τῶν that it's agreeing with.
This reading is a chance to signal what τῶν πρὸς εὐδαιμονίαν συντεινόντων is doing before you explain it. You could do it similarly to how you would modulate your voice for the noun phrases in "The house-on-the-left is ugly, but the house-on-the-right has charm."
I imagine that to get it to sound right it would help to memorize the passage and explain it to someone without the text in front of you. (My wife has been getting to hear a lot of Euthrypro lately.)
2:00 -- "τοῦ λογιστικοῦ τοῦ μέρος" -- nice extemporization, please more of this.
2:18 "You literally have φρόνησίς ἐστι παρασκευαστική." Again nice and simple, but maybe add τινος, and try to reduce the English verbiage introducing the phrase.
2:18-2:50: I would suggest illustrating this first my modulating your voice (see above), and then by using a simpler Greek sentence with simpler vocabulary, or a paraphrase. The visual explanation at the bottom is muddled. There are two things to explain 1) παρασκευαστική with a genitive, and 2) the noun phrase. Take them separately. For 2), bring it into the nominative, and then try a paraphrase?
2:50-3:10 I really dislike this picking out of English equivalents, making it sound to listeners like you are just picking a meaning at random from the dictionary. Teach the Greek, not the text. Why not use Xen. Mem. 3.1.6 as an explanation of παρασκευαστικός instead? It has mostly the same structure as this phrase and could be simplified. Or use παρασκευαστικός in an English phrase without trying to give a precise meaning.
3:10-4:00 You end up with the English translation at the end, but the explanation of how to get there was tough for me to follow (and I knew where you were going with it).
4:00 - 4:08 You were very good reading the φρόνησίς ἐστι ἀρετὴ τοῦ λογιστικοῦ clause, and this clause should sound exactly the same, among other things signaling to the listener that it’s parallel. Instead, it’s read with no modulation.
4:50-5:15 You spend half a minute here trying to explain the sound of Greek contraction instead of just saying it. I would simplify this to: “κατὰ ἥν (pronounce this as prissily as possible) contracts to καθ’ ἥν.”
5:55: Here another example of picking out an English meaning for a word (seemingly) at random. Don’t say that ὑπό can mean ‘by’ or ‘from’ and that you’ve picked ‘from.’ Instead mention that ὑπὸ <feeling> is a common idiom and illustrate with some simple examples.
6:00 — Your boxes showed up late, unfortunately, so it’s hard to judge how much sense they made in context. I liked that you were explaining δυσ- versus ευ-, but it would have helped to see more example sentences.
NOTE: For the rest of the video, the mouse is badly offset from the audio.
8:21-35 δυσέκπληκτοί εἰσιν. Try pronouncing these two words together once instead of explaining how you did pronounce them 20 seconds ago. Also, you may notice from your reading that it’s really the pronunciation of word accent that makes a word enclitic, not (just) how close they are together (words in a sentence are mostly said together), so I was happy to hear you stress -τοί.
9:02 “Notice how the article comes after the noun…” I understand what you are saying, but that was an infelicitous expression. This is not the article of φόβων moved to after the noun, rather it’s the article for περὶ θάνατον, agreeing with φόβων. Also “rhythm of the sentence” is similarly unhelpful. But then you follow everything by “ὑπὸ φόβων, which φόβων?, τῶν περὶ θάνατον, those regarding death.” That was perfect.
12:15 That’s a good illustration of “base desires” for English, but not so good for τῶν φαύλων ἡδονῶν, I would think. Our word “base” has picked up more moral connotations in this phrase. I could be wrong.
13:15 You mention that you aren’t glossing the philosophical headwords. It makes me wonder who the audience of this is supposed to be? Have your listeners learned these words from reading other texts, and therefore know quite a bit of Greek, or did they study a sheet of glosses before watching the video? If you expect them to have used glosses before watching this, how exactly are you getting them to “learn the words in context” just because you avoid saying them now. The solution here, instead of glosses, might be example sentences, simplified from real Greek usages of these words.
I listened to the rest, but didn’t stop and rewind very much (my notes would have been very similar to the above anyway). Regardless, thank you for the very hard work on putting this together!
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Actually that was all incredibly helpful. Unfortunately I can't necessarily fix anything with my reading right now because I'm pretty bunged up still. Honestly I thought I'd be done with this by now, I intended to do one each evening over 7 days and ended up with, like, 2 in 12? So I guess I rushed it a bit too much. But the positive is I think the overall presentation was better and I've learned a lot from messing about with editing.
Either way, this one needs re-doing. I just couldn't get the sound and images to go together properly. The only points I would make, by way of explanation are:
I tried to avoid giving a full reading in order to save time...but somehow I ended up at the 20min mark none the less, so you may be right that I should just do that. I don't get how I'm going so over my time limit. If I had followed your suggestions I think I could have cut a few mins down.
I think one way I can cut down time, and make things better, is by limiting the English glosses. It's where I stumble, for some reason I often go anc Greek > modern Greek > English rather than Anc > English. I guess hearing aitiatikh, metoxh etc all the time is MORE confusing. It's the lack of physical audience and interaction I think. That said I'm not sure I can keep citing Greek because this is meant to be for beginners and I don't want to introduce new words etc that they wouldn't understand. If I get the hang of this, a later text can be explicated in that manner, with a lot of Greek. I'm heading to less and less explanation each vid anyway in this series.
I'm gonna take your notes and have another go in the morning before the gym if I can. Hopefully it will be clearer and, by the gods, less than 20 mins.
So here's where I am generally with this: I'm not sure how helpful the whole process can be rather than simply producing beginner PDF commentaries. My aim is generally to produce something different to what is already out there. I myself am skeptical a bit of the helpfulness generally, but I think I'm following the old adage "Primum non nocere". So there's that, at least.
Either way, this one needs re-doing. I just couldn't get the sound and images to go together properly. The only points I would make, by way of explanation are:
I tried to avoid giving a full reading in order to save time...but somehow I ended up at the 20min mark none the less, so you may be right that I should just do that. I don't get how I'm going so over my time limit. If I had followed your suggestions I think I could have cut a few mins down.
I think one way I can cut down time, and make things better, is by limiting the English glosses. It's where I stumble, for some reason I often go anc Greek > modern Greek > English rather than Anc > English. I guess hearing aitiatikh, metoxh etc all the time is MORE confusing. It's the lack of physical audience and interaction I think. That said I'm not sure I can keep citing Greek because this is meant to be for beginners and I don't want to introduce new words etc that they wouldn't understand. If I get the hang of this, a later text can be explicated in that manner, with a lot of Greek. I'm heading to less and less explanation each vid anyway in this series.
I'm gonna take your notes and have another go in the morning before the gym if I can. Hopefully it will be clearer and, by the gods, less than 20 mins.
So here's where I am generally with this: I'm not sure how helpful the whole process can be rather than simply producing beginner PDF commentaries. My aim is generally to produce something different to what is already out there. I myself am skeptical a bit of the helpfulness generally, but I think I'm following the old adage "Primum non nocere". So there's that, at least.
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I feel you on this. The big advantage with a PDF commentary is that one can take it at whatever pace they want: they can jump around back and forth, spend more time on certain parts and less on the parts they get, etc. However, there is a definite advantage to something like this for a beginner: hearing someone read the Greek text brings the language to life and ''pulls it off the page''. I think that it can be very motivating, especially for a beginner, to realize that the symbols on the page represent a living, breathing human communication. It gives ''warmth'' to the text. Overall, your pronunciation is quite good. I hope you continue with these.Scribo wrote: So here's where I am generally with this: I'm not sure how helpful the whole process can be rather than simply producing beginner PDF commentaries. My aim is generally to produce something different to what is already out there. I myself am skeptical a bit of the helpfulness generally, but I think I'm following the old adage "Primum non nocere". So there's that, at least.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
The big problem with the video is how out of sync the image is from the sound. So much so I froze it on one screen and watched that while the video was playing on my other screen which gave me the audio. Your explanation did seem be based on the assumption everyone would be watching the video so I did find things a little harder to follow that the first video - but I did follow it nonetheless. The other technical problem is the sound was very low. I can get good sound if I access youtube thru my TV but then it is very hard to rewind using a TV controler rather than a mouse-pointer.Scribo wrote: Either way, this one needs re-doing. I just couldn't get the sound and images to go together properly.
There were some words I couldn't make out - were they moder Greek?Scribo wrote:
I tried to avoid giving a full reading in order to save time...but somehow I ended up at the 20min mark none the less, so you may be right that I should just do that. I don't get how I'm going so over my time limit. If I had followed your suggestions I think I could have cut a few mins down.
I think one way I can cut down time, and make things better, is by limiting the English glosses. It's where I stumble, for some reason I often go anc Greek > modern Greek > English rather than Anc > English. I guess hearing aitiatikh, metoxh etc all the time is MORE confusing. It's the lack of physical audience and interaction I think.
I agree - the thing that makes - Virtues and Vices hard for me is that there are so many words that are completely new. Hence paraphrases that may well involve even more unknown words would risk over loading me.Scribo wrote:
That said I'm not sure I can keep citing Greek because this is meant to be for beginners and I don't want to introduce new words etc that they wouldn't understand. If I get the hang of this, a later text can be explicated in that manner, with a lot of Greek. I'm heading to less and less explanation each vid anyway in this series.
The real test is that I understood how every thing hangs together.Scribo wrote:
So here's where I am generally with this: I'm not sure how helpful the whole process can be rather than simply producing beginner PDF commentaries. My aim is generally to produce something different to what is already out there. I myself am skeptical a bit of the helpfulness generally, but I think I'm following the old adage "Primum non nocere". So there's that, at least.
I was completely stumped by κατέχουσι τῷ λογισμῷ τὴν ἐπιθυμίαν ὁρμῶσαν ἐπὶ τὰς but you cleared up all my confusion. Using brackets was a good idea but I don't quite get the use of the two types of brackets.
I especially liked how you drew attention to the basic structure of the sentences at the end.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I've tried to repeat the better bits of those strategies Daivid. Though, at the same time, I don't want to risk becoming redundant.
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSVC4wo ... e=youtu.be
Audio + Video sync better but sound quality...eh. Couldn't append much analysis to the end (summaries, sentence structures etc) because my voice gave out. Though I've given in and taken some cold medicne now lol. Hopefully my explanations are sufficiently full to facilitate comprehension but also not quite repetitive.
Recall my advice to re-read previous sections, a huge amount of the text is replicated on a structural level.
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSVC4wo ... e=youtu.be
Audio + Video sync better but sound quality...eh. Couldn't append much analysis to the end (summaries, sentence structures etc) because my voice gave out. Though I've given in and taken some cold medicne now lol. Hopefully my explanations are sufficiently full to facilitate comprehension but also not quite repetitive.
Recall my advice to re-read previous sections, a huge amount of the text is replicated on a structural level.
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Scribo, I really like what you did with ὠθέω, showing the picture of an ὠθισμός and the quote from Herodotus. As you say, this is a good way to help folks better internalize the Greek.
I just re-read the passage from Perseus and I was able to understand it better than I would have before the videos, and so on that level your project was a success. And sometimes one would indeed rather watch a video than read a commentary.
I just re-read the passage from Perseus and I was able to understand it better than I would have before the videos, and so on that level your project was a success. And sometimes one would indeed rather watch a video than read a commentary.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I am in the middle of the third video now.Scribo wrote:I've tried to repeat the better bits of those strategies Daivid. Though, at the same time, I don't want to risk becoming redundant.
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSVC4wo ... e=youtu.be
In the Perseus edition of the text there is this sentence
περὶ μὲν τῆς ἀκρατείας οὐδέν: οὕτω δὲ σὺ δύνασαι ὁρίζειν.
just before:
ἀκράτεια δ᾽ ἐστὶ κακία τοῦ ἐπιθυμητικοῦ, καθ᾽ ἣν παρασύρουσι τῇ ἀλογίᾳ τὴν ἐπιθυμίαν ὠθοῦσαν ἐπὶ τὰς τῶν φαύλων ἡδονῶν ἀπολαύσεις.
This is missing from your version and
I have found a third version of the text which is different again.
Is this extra line the result of differences between surviving manuscripts?
I couldn't make sense of that line at all. Is that just me or is there something odd about it.
Last edited by daivid on Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Yesterday when I went through the third video it was after a bad nights sleep and yet your video made it easy. Especially helpful was you explanation of παρασύρουσι τῇ ἀλογίᾳ τὴν ἐπιθυμίαν . Without that, I would have been totally stumped. The dictionary definition of παρασύρω is nothing like the one you gave and has little relevance to its use here. On top of that it is very useful to told what the missing subject is. I have lost count of the times I have been thrown by a Greek writer leaving out something as being too obvious to be worth the bother of writing it. Obvious, of course, to an Ancient Greek native speaker but not at all to someone like me.
When some months ago I first attempted Virtues and Vices I was bewildered as to why you considered it to be easy. Now, thanks to you, it does seem easy even to me. A big part of that is the redundancy so I won't join you in shaming the ὀργιλότης δ᾽ ἐστὶ κακία τοῦ θυμοειδοῦς, καθ᾽ ἣν εὐκίνητοι γίνονται πρὸς ὀργήν - at the intermediate level redundancy is your friend. It is worth pointing out the extent of redundancy (and indeed in that line the author goes beyond redundancy into tautology) as sometimes I have been stumped because a writer has written something so redundant that I have convinced myself there must be something more there.
BTW Why is the video classified as unlisted?
When some months ago I first attempted Virtues and Vices I was bewildered as to why you considered it to be easy. Now, thanks to you, it does seem easy even to me. A big part of that is the redundancy so I won't join you in shaming the ὀργιλότης δ᾽ ἐστὶ κακία τοῦ θυμοειδοῦς, καθ᾽ ἣν εὐκίνητοι γίνονται πρὸς ὀργήν - at the intermediate level redundancy is your friend. It is worth pointing out the extent of redundancy (and indeed in that line the author goes beyond redundancy into tautology) as sometimes I have been stumped because a writer has written something so redundant that I have convinced myself there must be something more there.
BTW Why is the video classified as unlisted?
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Joel I haven't commented on your video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLc43tdCnUc ) because it depends on being able to understand the spoken Greek and although I have listened both to your Virtues and Vices reading and your one of Klearchos' speech several times can't yet do that. The problem is no doubt my hearing as I also need the text in front of me when listening to Polis.
I do get that you want to encourage people to listen without the text in front of them but for me the lack of a text ensures I can't understand.
I do want, however, to comment on one thing you said in English. The essential point about ἐπαινετὰ is surely that it is what other people think of the action. For example, let us imagine a westerner finds himself in a region occupied by the so called Islamic state he might well if his desire to survive was greater than his courage plunder a church to prove he was a supporter of Islamic state. It would be ἐπαινετὰ even though he secretly believed it to be wrong. If later, while overcome with guilt at his cowardice, his sees some IS activists setting fire to a building in which there were Yazidi children and he broke in to save the children he would be doing something ψεκτὰ.
(I should say that I have seen no reports of IS burning children alive - burying children alive, yes, but burning no. )
I do get that you want to encourage people to listen without the text in front of them but for me the lack of a text ensures I can't understand.
I do want, however, to comment on one thing you said in English. The essential point about ἐπαινετὰ is surely that it is what other people think of the action. For example, let us imagine a westerner finds himself in a region occupied by the so called Islamic state he might well if his desire to survive was greater than his courage plunder a church to prove he was a supporter of Islamic state. It would be ἐπαινετὰ even though he secretly believed it to be wrong. If later, while overcome with guilt at his cowardice, his sees some IS activists setting fire to a building in which there were Yazidi children and he broke in to save the children he would be doing something ψεκτὰ.
(I should say that I have seen no reports of IS burning children alive - burying children alive, yes, but burning no. )
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I hadn't meant for you to look at it without the text. I recorded it on my phone, I think, and assumed that people could open the text in another browser window as they needed it.
My old videos are all awful, generally. Learning to speak Greek seems to be a process of years.
Fair point about ἐπαινετός. I think that we might need to get into a discussion of shame versus guilt cultures to know more.
My old videos are all awful, generally. Learning to speak Greek seems to be a process of years.
Fair point about ἐπαινετός. I think that we might need to get into a discussion of shame versus guilt cultures to know more.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
@david: Per your suggestion, I've re-recorded my Greek Boy At Home videos to display the text while I speak:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... XClL3uuujV
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... XClL3uuujV
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
It is true that you can open the text in another window - this text is online but the key prob is your explanations are based on illustrative examples in Greek which aren't available.jeidsath wrote:I hadn't meant for you to look at it without the text. I recorded it on my phone, I think, and assumed that people could open the text in another browser window as they needed it.
.
Providing the text for your recording of the Greek Boy at home is, however, a big help even more so because you put on screen just the section you are reading which helps me keep place. The Greek Boy at home is a bit lifeless as plain text and having it read is helpful.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I'm thinking of going through and adding subtitles to them, like the Cupid video. It's pretty easy, and they can be toggled on and off by the user.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Yeah I got to work out how to do stuff like that. I'm going to finish this series (on Stotis, naturally), write it up, and then do some on Latin as well and some generic conversational stuff.
It can be fun to mess around with this stuff. E.g I've learned how to eliminate some of the background noise in Audacity. You open up the track, highlight what you think to be the background noise and the programme automatically deletes it. Lovely.
It can be fun to mess around with this stuff. E.g I've learned how to eliminate some of the background noise in Audacity. You open up the track, highlight what you think to be the background noise and the programme automatically deletes it. Lovely.
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
Scribo, your video does not show up in any Youtube searches. I wonder if there is a setting to make it more public that would help make it more accessible.
It is an excellent resourse.
It is an excellent resourse.
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Re: Aristotle - Virtues and Vices videos
I can't find Scribo's video any more. Has it been deleted or moved?
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