Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 8

[Markos]

4. Ὁ Αἰόλος δὲ• "Ἄπιτε ἀπὸ τῆς νήσου ταχέως" φῆσιν "Οὐ δυνατόν ἐστιν ὑμῖν βοηθεῖν. Οἱ γάρ θεοὶ δήπου ὑμᾶς μισοῦσιν."

I think you meant to write ὁ δ᾿ Αἴολος. The postpositive (δέ) comes after the first element of the noun phrase rather than after the entire noun phrase.

Except when it doesn't:

Acts 25:9: ὁ Φῆστος δὲ θέλων τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις χάριν καταθέσθαι ἀποκριθεὶς τῷ Παύλῳ εἶπεν, Θέλεις εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα ἀναβὰς ἐκεῖ περὶ τούτων κριθῆναι ἐπ' ἐμοῦ;

[jaihare]

4. Ὁ Αἰόλος δὲ• "Ἄπιτε ἀπὸ τῆς νήσου ταχέως" φῆσιν "Οὐ δυνατόν ἐστιν ὑμῖν βοηθεῖν. Οἱ γάρ θεοὶ δήπου ὑμᾶς μισοῦσιν."

I think you meant to write ὁ δ᾿ Αἴολος. The postpositive (δέ) comes after the first element of the noun phrase rather than after the entire noun phrase.

Except when it doesn't:

Acts 25:9: ὁ Φῆστος δὲ θέλων τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις χάριν καταθέσθαι ἀποκριθεὶς τῷ Παύλῳ εἶπεν, Θέλεις εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα ἀναβὰς ἐκεῖ περὶ τούτων κριθῆναι ἐπ' ἐμοῦ;

If there an explanation for that?

It's certainly not the way that we should be practicing our Greek translations, though.

[CanadianGirl]

I'm moving along slowly. Hope to get through 8 next week-maybe we can all move on to Lesson 9 together. Happy Thanksgiving!
Athenaze 8 ε epsilon
1. ‘Ἡ μητηρ κελυει την θυγατεραν σπευδειν προς την κρηνην.
2. Και ‘η θυγατηρ βαδιζει τον αγρον και ζντει τον πατερα.
3. Και ευρισκει τον πατερα εν τον αγρον μετα αλλων ανδρων εργαζομενον.
4. Kai λεγει πατρι, ΄’ω πατερε, η ματηρ κελευει φερειν υδωρ εκ της κρηνης.’’
5. ‘’Αλλα αι αλλαι παιδες πασαι παιζοθσι.’’
6. Δε ο πατηρ φησι, ‘’ω θυγατερ, πειθου τη μητρι. Φερε το υδωρ.’’
7. Επι τη κρηνη, η θυγατηρ γυναι πολλαι ορα, πασαι υδριας φερουσι.
8. Oυν προς τας γθνακας φνσι ‘Χαιρετε ω φιλαι‘ και πληροει την υδριαν.
9. Επει αφικνειται οικαδε λεγει την ματρην παντα.-
10. Η μητηρ φησι ‘’ ευ γε, νυν ιθε και παιζε μετα αλλων παρθενων.’’

[mwh]

δέ usually slips in immediately after the first word, and will interrupt even so tightly connected a word group as article + noun: ὁ δ’ Αἴολος. In later Greek δέ is more often postponed a little, as in the NT example offered by Markos; the same is true of other postipositives such as γάρ and οὖν. While you’re learning you should always put these in strictly 2nd position, as jaihare advises.
(Never ever ever as 1st word: they're postpositives!—watch out CanadianGirl!)

[brunapogliano]

I hope this is helpful!

thank you very much!
I've set aside the present week to go through all your remarks carefully.
I'll be back with my comments.

[CanadianGirl]

Thanks for the comments-I keep being baffled by how hard it is to 'think' in Greek, when I can usually figure out most texts. you have to use two different parts of the brain apparently. I will be out of touch until Monday Dec. 1 (working, shopping, partying) See everybody then.

[jaihare]

Thanks for the comments-I keep being baffled by how hard it is to 'think' in Greek, when I can usually figure out most texts. you have to use two different parts of the brain apparently. I will be out of touch until Monday Dec. 1 (working, shopping, partying) See everybody then.

I'm leaving for NYC today. I'll be there by tomorrow morning. Hopefully, I'll be attending the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and then going to my friends' house for a late lunch :slash: early dinner with their family. Then there's gonna be some crazy shopping for electronics on Friday. My first Black Friday in Manhattan!

All that to say that I'm taking Athenaze with me (as well as Greek to GCSE [part 2]). I want to get busy at some point during the weekend to get back into the GCSE series and perhaps finished the third book (Greek Beyond GCSE) on my own. I need to push forward and get back into the Intensive Course (but my Greek partner has also been swallowed up in his life requirements and will not be continuing with me on Skype).

Just need to read Greek as much as possible and do it more than once per week. I know that writing in Greek is harder than translating into English, but it's definitely doable if we keep at it!

[brunapogliano]

Just need to read Greek as much as possible and do it more than once per week. I know that writing in Greek is harder than translating into English, but it's definitely doable if we keep at it!

it is, but as I said in maybe my very first post, that's where your hands get really dirty. Besides, not being an English native speaker, also translating from Greek to English requires more effort for me. And it's Worth every single bit.
I'm presently doing the ἐ π ι σ τ ο λ ὴ π ρ ὸ ς Μ ε ν ο ι κ έ α with my Italian study Group. we're doing a careful and good work, though I get bored to tears with Epicurus, I've never liked the philosophy of the period between Aristotle and NT.
have nice weekends shopping and partying all of you!

[CanadianGirl]

On to 8 h!
Hope everybody has recuperated from Thanksgiving.
Athenaze 8 zeta
1. A certain farmer has three children, two boys and one daughter.
2. So, the boys labor all day in the field, but the daughter stays at home (in the house) and helps the (her) mother. And at night everybody (the whole crew) sleeps in the house.
3. And on the next day, the mother says to the daughter “There is not much water in the house, we will not have water for two days. So, go bring me water.”
4. And having arrived at the spring (or fountain) the girl sees four women filling their water vases. [BTW-if this is a rural setting, I imagine it would probably be a spring or a well, the nice fountain houses were mostly found in the towns, such as the `εννεακρουνος at Athens.]
5. The first woman says: “Greetings, girl, come here and fill the water vessel.”
6. And the second, “Why have you come to the fountain? Why not help your mother?”
7. And the girl replying, says, “The (my) mother is busy, for she is weaving five peploi (robes).”
8. And the third woman says, “Hurry, lazy girl, for your mother is waiting for you.”
9. And the fourth woman says, “Don’t make it difficult (?), for the girl is in a hurry.”
10. And so the girl quickly fills all the water-vessels and hurries homeward.

[jaihare]

It's now December 2. I'm afraid that if we spend too much time just barely moving, we are going to give up as a group. Can we open the thread for 9α this week? Or, at least on Sunday? Do you think we'll be ready to move on by then?

I'll post some comments on CanadianGirl's latest contributions as soon as I can.

[brunapogliano]

It's now December 2. I'm afraid that if we spend too much time just barely moving, we are going to give up as a group. Can we open the thread for 9α this week? Or, at least on Sunday? Do you think we'll be ready to move on by then?

I'll post some comments on CanadianGirl's latest contributions as soon as I can.

I'm still toiling through your comments. Insane period to say the least. I won't give up, I never do. I may have to slow down too much for you, but I'll keep working.
bye

[jaihare]

Exercise 8ζ

2. So, the boys labor all day in the field, but the daughter stays at home (in the house) and helps the (her) mother. And at night everybody (the whole crew) sleeps in the house.

I would take “so” as a translation of οὖν. I don’t think it’s appropriate for μέν by itself.

3. And on the next day, the mother says to the daughter “There is not much water in the house, we will not have water for two days. So, go bring me water.”

Rather than “for two days,” you should read it as “in two days.” That is, we have enough water for two days – “in two days we will not have any water.” Notice the comment about the genitive of time on page 129: “Cardinal adjectives are also used in phrases expressing time within which with the genitive case, e.g.: Time within which: πέντε ἡμερῶν = within five days.”

See how you rendered οὖν here as “so”? Compare that with #2 above.

4. And having arrived at the spring (or fountain) the girl sees four women filling their water vases. [BTW-if this is a rural setting, I imagine it would probably be a spring or a well, the nice fountain houses were mostly found in the towns, such as the εννεακρουνος at Athens.]

Excellent comment.

5. The first woman says: “Greetings, girl, come here and fill the water vessel.”

Does she call her “girl” (κόρα/παρθένος/παῖ) or “friend” (φίλη)?

6. And the second, “Why have you come to the fountain? Why not help your mother?”

Notice the emphatic way in which the word σύ is added to the question. “Why did you come (instead of your mother)?” I think you’ve missed the second part of the sentence and replaced it with another phrase, presumably «τί τῇ μετρὶ οὐ συλλαμβάνεις;». The second part of the sentence was «τί ποιεῖ ἡ σὴ μήτηρ;» What is your mother doing? In other words – “Why are you here (instead of your mother)? What’s she doing (that she sent you in her place)?” Do you know where might have gotten the phrase “Why not help your mother?”

9. And the fourth woman says, “Don’t make it difficult (?), for the girl is in a hurry.”

While χαλεπός might be “difficult” when we’re talking about a question or about work, it means “harsh,” “mean” or “rough” when talking about a person’s behavior toward another. “Don’t be so mean…” “Don’t be so harsh…” “Don’t be so unyielding…” Something like that. I try to live by that when I am offering my corrections here in the group: μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ Ἰάσον.

10. And so the girl quickly fills all the water-vessels and hurries homeward.

She only has one water jar (τὴν ὑδρίαν). When we apply πᾶσαν to it in the attributive position (τὴν πᾶσαν ὑδρίαν), we would say “the whole jar” in English.

Overall, very good. Keep up the good work!

[CanadianGirl]

Thanks for your comments, Jaihare. I appreciate the trouble you go to. Yes, let's move on to Lesson Nine this week-I think it's better to have some continuity (momentum) rather than getting every exercise done. I know I'm making progress (slowly) & hope everybody else is. Let's proceed.

Athenaze 8 η
1. The daughters, being persuaded by the (their) mother, wake up father and persuade him to proceed (travel) to Athens.
2. The father leaves the sons (his sons) at home, and leads the (his) daughters to Athens.
3. The road is long and hard (rough); and on the second day they arrive there.
4. They see many people hurrying quickly through the streets.
5. And when they arrive (or reach) the agora, they remain a long time looking at everything.
6. So they look at things in the agora for two days, and the third day they go up to the Acropolis.
7. They remain in Athens nine days, and on the tenth they set out homeward.
8. They make the journey in four days, travelling slowly, and on the fifth they arrive homeward.

[brunapogliano]

Exercise 8δ
1. All the women are hurrying to the fountain
3. When they arrive at the fountain, the daughters are not there

I wonder if there is an essential difference between “spring” and “fountain” for κρήνη. Could we also translate it as “watering hole”? In that sense, could we extend it to “pub”? LOL

http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=6 ... rom-search
well, spring, fountain pub seems a little far-fetched. LOL LOL

9. When they arrive at home, the men tell everything to the women

Do you see an essential difference between “the women” and “their wives”? In number 4 above, you translated τοῖς ἀνδράσι as “their husbands.” What’s the difference in this respect between husbands and wives?

HUSBANDS and WIVES is certainly more consistent here, as in a Greek home the only males were relatives. I've made a note in my file.

Exercise 8ε
1. Ἡ μέτηρ τὴν θυγατέρα κελεύει πρὸς τὴν κρὴνην σπεύδειν

That is, μήτηρ rather than *μέτηρ, right?
I read this one as “her daughters” and translated it as τὰς θυγατέρας. I’ll make a correction on that.

'course, you're right, I fixed that as well as other spelling mistakes you spotted in my work

3. Καὶ τὸν πατέρα ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ εὑρίσκει σὺν ἄλλοις ἀνδράσιν ἐργαζόμενον

I used μετά instead of σύν. Do you think there’s a difference? I have no idea at this point. I also took ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ as adverbial with the verb πονέω (where the fathers were working) rather than with εὑρίσκω (where the lass found her father). Thus, I placed it after εὑρίσκει and before πονοῦντα / ἐργαζόμενον.

A nice point!
http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=6 ... rom-search
http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1 ... rom-search
after checking the above 2 links I haven't come to a conclusion, as for the difference between σὺν and μετὰ, to me it sounds as if μετὰ focuses on company while σὺν on cooperation. But that's just my feeling.
I think you're right about ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ being adverbial. Actually it had not flashed through my mind at all.

4. Τῷ πατρὶ οὖν λέγει• "ὦ πάτερ, ἡ μέτηρ κελεύει με ὕδωρ ἀπὸ τῆς κρήνης φέρειν"

I translated “from” as ἐκ (“out of”) rather than as ἀπό (“away from”).

- I prefer mine, yours makes me think of water running out of the fountain, while mine depicts the girl carrying a full water jar homewards

5. ἀλλὰ πᾶσαι ἄλλαι παρθένοι παίζουσιν

Wouldn’t you expect an article somewhere with παρθένοι? I put πᾶσαι in predicate position following the noun (αἱ ἄλλαι παρθένοι/παῖδες πᾶσαι) and put the verb first for emphasis.

you're right about the article. But your translation sounds awkward to me. Everything, or nearly, is possible but the order of your last three words puzzles me.
7. I think you skipped γυναῖκας
8. of course, your're right
9. and yes again

10. Ἡ οὖν μέτηρ• "Εὖ γε," φησίν• "ἐλθὲ νῦν καὶ μετὰ τῶν ἄλλων κορῶν παῖζε"

I wrote ἴθι instead of ἐλθέ. Is it “come” (as in ἐλθὲ δεῦρο) or “go” (as in ἴθι ἐκεῖσε)?

10. it was ἴθι. I found a beautiful and clear definition

when εἶμι and ἦλθον occur without a source or goal expression, the former is centrifugal, the latter centripetal, as is particularly noticeable in the imperative and subjunctive, where ἐλθέ means "come", but ἴθι means "go", and one finds ἴομεν but not ἔλθωμεν.

Unlike Canadian Girl, I prefer to work slowly but carefully. I hate jumping on and skipping or leaving things out, so I'll post other answers to your comments and then I'll move on.

thank you.

[brunapogliano]

these are my final comments to your remarks. Thank you for your work, keep up helping please.

Exercise 8ζ
5. "Hello, dear" says the first woman "come here and fill the jar"

I know that the adjective φίλος -η -ον means “dear” or even “friendly.” However, when it’s used as a substantive, aren’t φίλος and φίλη better understood as “friend”?

how can you tell it's a substantive and not an adjective? I know my translation sounds kind of modern compared with the usual formal language. I did it on purpose. Provided I haven't made a mistake, what's wrong with it?

10.So the girl fills up the jar quickly and hurries home

You missed the word πᾶσαν in the noun phrase τὴν πᾶσαν ὑδρίαν.

I didn't, I thought that FILL UP was clear enough.

Exercise 8η
2. The father leaves the sons at home, while he leads the daughters to Athens

“The” or “his”?

I don't see your point. HIS may be more English-style, but SONS can only be his.

7. They remain in Athens for nine days, on the tenth day they set off homewards

What do you think about the phrase “head home” instead of “set off homewards” for οἴκαδε ὁρμῶνται?

both good to me, but I think head home covers direction only, while set off homewards covers both start of movement and direction

Exercise 8θ
2. Ὁ οὖν, ἐπέι με ὁρᾷ, μάλα θαυμάζει καὶ λέγει• "Τί πάσχεις; Διὰ τί αὔθις δεῦρο πάρει;
Also: Ὁ οὖν ὁρών με....

I’m uncertain about the use of ὁ οὖν. I see ὁ δὲ all over the place, but I don’t know if it can just be used this way before any and all postpositives. Do you want to check up on it?
I think δεῦρο is with motion (Greek ἐλθὲ δεῦρο = Hebrew בוא הנה). Alternatively, I think ἐνθάδε is for location in which something is found (Greek ἐνθάδε πάρει = Hebrew אתה פה).

2. I think μάλα is missing in your translation
About your remark on my use of οὖν, from what I've found I'd say it's rare and later than Attic.
see here:

Ὁ οὖν πρὸ τῆς θεωρίας τῶν ὑπὲρ νοῦν καὶ λόγον καὶ ἔννοιαν ἐπαισθάνεσθαι λέγων ἐν τοῖς πνευματικοῖς, τῷ τὰς ὄψεις πηρῷ ἔοικεν, ὃς ἐν οἷς μὲν ...
ὁ οὖν ἐξηγούμενος αὐτὸ δοκεῖ ὅτι πλείονος ἄξιός ἐστιν ἢ πέντε δηναρίων; μηδέποτε ... Epictetus

so, on to CH 9 but not before next weekend

[jaihare]

this are my final comments to your remarks. Thank you for your work, keep up helping please.

I'll certainly try.

how can you tell it's a substantive and not an adjective? I know my translation sounds kind of modern compared with the usual formal language. I did it on purpose. Provided I haven't made a mistake, what's wrong with it?

I assume it's substantive because it isn't accompanying a noun. It is standing on its own, thus it represents an entire noun phrase (NP) being in the vocative. Do you think it's possible for an adjective to replace a noun phrase and not be substantive? Can adjectives be adjectival while in the vocative? Even if I use "lazy," as Dicaeopolis is apt to do, in the vocative, it would be a substantive saying "lazy [one]" or "lazy [person]." Thus, φίλη should be understood here as a substantive saying "dear [one]" or "loved [one]." I guess "dear" in that sentence made me think of the woman as an old lady. I don't know. Seemed odd. Maybe it's fine.

I didn't, I thought that FILL UP was clear enough.

"Fill up" with the sense of "completely" can be expressed with ἀναπληρόω or even διαπληρόω (where δια- is added as an intensifier of the normal sense of πληρόω). I guess I'm just too strict about literal translation in early stages of the process of learning.

I don't see your point. HIS may be more English-style, but SONS can only be his.

Just to get used to the fact that αὐτοῦ isn't always present to express possession.

both good to me, but I think head home covers direction only, while set off homewards covers both start of movement and direction.

"To head somewhere" means the same thing as "to set off." "I headed to the store." means the same thing as "I set off for the store." Both refer to the initiation of motion, so both cover ὁρμάομαι fine. I just think "head home" sounds more colloquial than "set off homeward(s)," which is less in-fashion today. Look at me not being a stickler on this one!

2. I think μάλα is missing in your translation

I'll definitely look at that as soon as I get a chance - and probably make a change.

About your remark on my use of οὖν, from what I've found I'd say it's rare and later than Attic.
see here:

Ὁ οὖν πρὸ τῆς θεωρίας τῶν ὑπὲρ νοῦν καὶ λόγον καὶ ἔννοιαν ἐπαισθάνεσθαι λέγων ἐν τοῖς πνευματικοῖς, τῷ τὰς ὄψεις πηρῷ ἔοικεν, ὃς ἐν οἷς μὲν ...
ὁ οὖν ἐξηγούμενος αὐτὸ δοκεῖ ὅτι πλείονος ἄξιός ἐστιν ἢ πέντε δηναρίων; μηδέποτε ... Epictetus

Excellent. Thanks.

so, on to CH 9 but not before next weekend

Enjoy.

[jaihare]

I think I missed your 8ε, so I’ve included it in this response to 8η. I hope that’s OK. 

Exercise 8ε

1. ‘Ἡ μητηρ κελυει την θυγατεραν σπευδειν προς την κρηνην.

I’m sure that κελυει is a typo for κελεύει. Notice that the third declension ending for the singular is -α rather than -αν. So, it should be θυγατέρα (without a nun).

2. Και ‘η θυγατηρ βαδιζει τον αγρον και ζντει τον πατερα.

Missing πρός before τὸν ἀγρόν (πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν) and I think you meant to type η instead of ν in ζητεῖ.

3. Και ευρισκει τον πατερα εν τον αγρον μετα αλλων ανδρων εργαζομενον.

Notice how you correctly typed πατέρα here (without a nun) and compare this to θυγατέρα in #1. Very good use of the participle. You might consider leaving the -α off of μετά when it appears before a word that begins with a vowel (μετ’ ἄλλων ἄνδρων).

4. Kai λεγει πατρι, ΄’ω πατερε, η ματηρ κελευει φερειν υδωρ εκ της κρηνης.’’

You typed English “Kai” instead of Greek “Και.” LOL 
-ε is the vocative ending of the second declension rather than the third. The vocative of πατήρ is simply πάτερ (with a shifted accent and shorted e-vowel). The first vowel in “mother” (unlike “father”) is an eta (μήτηρ). You missed the word με (“mother tells me to bring water…”).

5. ‘’Αλλα αι αλλαι παιδες πασαι παιζοθσι.’’

Again, just a little typo: παίζουσιν (with movable nun at the end of the sentence) instead of παιζοθσι.

6. Δε ο πατηρ φησι, ‘’ω θυγατερ, πειθου τη μητρι. Φερε το υδωρ.’’

The word δέ is postpositive. It needs to be the second word in its phrase: ὁ δὲ πατήρ. The word φησί(ν) is also postpositive! You should start part of the sentence, insert φησί(ν), and then finish the quotation. See my translation of this sentence:

6. ὁ δὲ πατήρ, “τῇ μητρὶ πείθου, ὦ θύγατερ,” φησίν. “φέρε τὸ ὕδωρ.”

7. Επι τη κρηνη, η θυγατηρ γυναι πολλαι ορα, πασαι υδριας φερουσι.

Just missed the introductory “and.” It can be either καί or δέ. You could also use πρός + dat. instead of ἐπί + dat.

8. Oυν προς τας γθνακας φνσι ‘Χαιρετε ω φιλαι‘ και πληροει την υδριαν.

Again, οὖν is postpositive. You could say either πρὸς οὖν τὰς γυναῖκας (notice the typo) or τῷ οὖν γυναιξί. The word φησίν (again a typo) is postpositive. You don’t introduce speech with it.

9. Επει αφικνειται οικαδε λεγει την ματρην παντα.-

Missed the introductory “and” (either καί or δέ). Because of the ἐπεί, it’s probably better to go with δέ (ἐπεὶ δὲ). With either οἴκαδε or ἀφικνεῖται following it, the epsilon of δέ might also naturally elide (drop off) and give us: ἐπεὶ δ᾿ οἴκαδε ἀφικνεῖται. Alternatively, we could create this sentence with a participle at the beginning: καὶ οἴκαδε ἀφικομένη… Notice, though, that the indirect object of λέγειν needs to be in the dative (not accusative), so we have τῇ μητρί (assuming that ματρην is a typo for μητέρα in the accusative).

10. Η μητηρ φησι ‘’ ευ γε, νυν ιθε και παιζε μετα αλλων παρθενων.’’

Missed another introductory “and” in this sentence. Greek uses it even more than English, by the way. I wrote ἡ δὲ μήτηρ. Again, φησί(ν) is postpositive. The imperative would probably precede adverbs that go with it, so that “go now” becomes ἴθι νῦν rather than νῦν ἴθι (if you say it out loud, you might feel the difference).

Exercise 8η

1. The daughters, being persuaded by the (their) mother, wake up father and persuade him to proceed (travel) to Athens.

I’m sure that πειθόμεναι means “obeying” rather than “being persuaded by.” I imagine that “persuaded by” is followed by the preposition ὑπό + gen. for a personal agent, while “obeying” is followed by the dative (“dative with certain verbs”). That will make it easier to tell the difference.

4. They see many people hurrying quickly through the streets.

I think you translated πανταχόσε as “quickly” instead of “everywhere.” Notice the -σε ending means “to” in this case. πανταχόσε means “to everywhere.” This is pointed out on page 124, where we see that πανταχοῦ means “everywhere,” πανταχόσε means “to everywhere” and πανταχόθεν means “from everywhere” (“from all over”). Nice, eh?

5. And when they arrive (or reach) the agora, they remain a long time looking at everything.

Notice that μένω doesn’t necessarily mean “remain.” It has a wider range of usage. It can mean “wait” (for someone) or just “stand” (as opposed to moving). I took it here as “stand” and translated it as “they stand for a long time looking at everything.” What do you think?

6. So they look at things in the agora for two days, and the third day they go up to the Acropolis.

Be careful to note that μέν doesn’t mean “so” or “therefore.” That is οὖν. It is a particle of contrast in sentences that have δέ in the second part. You can think of it as “while X happened, Y also happened” or “on the one hand X happened, but on the other hand Y happened.” This “while” is something like in this sentence: “While he went to the market, I went to Tel Aviv.” It doesn’t mean “at the same time as” but rather something like “whereas.”

7. They remain in Athens nine days, and on the tenth they set out homeward.

Again, μένω can simply be translated as “stay.” 
Like I suggested to Bruna, what do you think of “head (out) for” to translate ὁρμάομαι instead of “set out”?

8. They make the journey in four days, travelling slowly, and on the fifth they arrive homeward.

I wonder if we should take another look at time expressions using the various cases. Here we have an accusative of time (τέτταρας ἡμέρας). Do you think this is different than a dative of time? How would they be different? What about a genitive? Look at the bottom of 128 and top of 129 for some clarification. Do you think this is something we should at a little more and give clearer examples of?

Overall, very nice. It was good to think through this with you. Keep going!

Do you expect to do 8θ (translation into Greek) before moving on to chapter 9?

Jason

[jaihare]

2. I think μάλα is missing in your translation

I'll definitely look at that as soon as I get a chance - and probably make a change.

2. And he, when he sees me, is very amazed and says: "What is the matter (= what are you suffering)? Why are you here again?"
2. ἐπεὶ δέ με ὁρᾷ, θαυμάζει καί, “τί πάσχεις;” φησίν. “διὰ τί αὖθις ἐνθάδε πάρει;”

You're absolutely right. I missed μάλα (or σφόδρα). I'll put that in.

[brunapogliano]

thank you very very much for all your detailed and accurate remarks.

how can you tell it's a substantive and not an adjective? I know my translation sounds kind of modern compared with the usual formal language. I did it on purpose. Provided I haven't made a mistake, what's wrong with it?

I assume it's substantive because it isn't accompanying a noun. It is standing on its own, thus it represents an entire noun phrase (NP) being in the vocative. Do you think it's possible for an adjective to replace a noun phrase and not be substantive? Can adjectives be adjectival while in the vocative? Even if I use "lazy," as Dicaeopolis is apt to do, in the vocative, it would be a substantive saying "lazy [one]" or "lazy [person]." Thus, φίλη should be understood here as a substantive saying "dear [one]" or "loved [one]." I guess "dear" in that sentence made me think of the woman as an old lady. I don't know. Seemed odd. Maybe it's fine.

formally, you're right about it being substantive, in the vocative adjectives imply an accompanying noun.
Someone wrote about "a translator's assumption", you assumed the woman was not an old lady. I assumed she was a woman as opposed to a young girl, not an old woman but surely not the same age as the girl.

"Fill up" with the sense of "completely" can be expressed with ἀναπληρόω or even διαπληρόω (where δια- is added as an intensifier of the normal sense of πληρόω). I guess I'm just too strict about literal translation in early stages of the process of learning.

Not at all, you're extremely accurate and I'm Learning a lot. I may have different opinions at times but as I'm a false beginner I sometimes take liberties knowingly. It could help if I added a note saying something like "I know this is not literary but I'm aware of the difference".

"To head somewhere" means the same thing as "to set off." "I headed to the store." means the same thing as "I set off for the store." Both refer to the initiation of motion, so both cover ὁρμάομαι fine. I just think "head home" sounds more colloquial than "set off homeward(s)," which is less in-fashion today. Look at me not being a stickler on this one!

not exactly, according to Merriam Webster
to point or proceed in a certain direction <headed south>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1418080030
to start out on a course or a journey <set off for home>
same in Oxford Dictionary.
you are not a stickler, and nit-picking is one of my hobbies

my next post will be something for Lesson 9.
thank you again