Godmy wrote:In the sentences of this kind: "Having come to the city, I entered a shop." or "Having knocked, the door opened." would you expect frequently the participle of perfect in the Attic Greek?
To rephrase the question: are there some participles which are really rarely used (and/or some other participles are used in their place) and are rather avoided? (Like in this particular case?)
Scribo wrote:Aorist: This is prior to the verb so...to paida idousa kolazw (I punish the child having seen him)
Qimmik wrote: The Greek aorist participle more often corresponds to Latin perfect participles, indicating that the action occurred and was completed before the action of the main verb.
Paul Derouda wrote:καὶ μὴν βεβίνηκας σύ γ᾽
Qimmik wrote:"Would it perhaps be helpful if textbooks described the perfect as the present perfect as is normal in English?"
There is a difference--the Greek perfect can be used in a past context; the English present perfect can't. So maybe designating the Greek perfect as the present perfect would be more confusing.
Bart wrote:Paul Derouda wrote:καὶ μὴν βεβίνηκας σύ γ᾽
Huh huh. For the rest of my Greek studying life this little sentence will come to mind when pondering the syntactical function of the perfect.
I'd be interested to see an example where the Greek perfect is used where in English we would not.
Qimmik wrote:Most Greek perfects could probably be translated by English present perfects, but without something additional the special meaning of the Greek perfect would be lost. To take an example, the sentence near the beginning of Xenophon's Symposium in my other post on the perfect:
ἦν μὲν γὰρ Παναθηναίων τῶν μεγάλων ἱπποδρομία, Καλλίας δὲ ὁ Ἱππονίκου ἐρῶν ἐτύγχανεν Αὐτολύκου παιδὸς ὄντος, καὶ νενικηκότα αὐτὸν παγκράτιον ἧκεν ἄγων ἐπὶ τὴν θέαν.
To turn this sentence around so that Hipponicus is the subject and a non-dangling present perfect participle can be used in English, "Hipponicus was brought to the race by Callias, having won the pancration" doesn't convey the idea that is present in the Greek. This doesn't merely tell us that Hipponicus won the match and then Callias brought him along. Hipponicus was the winner of the match--it was his status as the winner that Callias was celebrating by bringing him to the horse race.
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