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Translation of Sophocles, Philoctetes

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Translation of Sophocles, Philoctetes

Postby fraliseco » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:46 pm

Hey,
I'm having trouble with these two sentences from the tragedy.

τὴν Φιλοκτήτου σε δεῖ
ψυχὴν ὅπως δόλοισιν ἐκκλέψεις λέγων.
(54-55)

καὶ μὴ παρῇς
σαυτοῦ βροτοῖς ὄνειδος, ἐκκλέψας ἐμέ.
(967-968)

What would be a strictly literal translation? Is is true that in both cases you could translate "ἐκκλέπτω" either as "to kidnap" or "to cheat"? And where does "παρῇς" come from?

It would be freat if you could help.
Thanks!
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Re: Translation of Sophocles, Philoctetes

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:00 pm

967-8: παρῇς is (2d) aorist active subjunctive of παρίημι, here meaning something like "allow." "Do not allow mortal men reproach of you . . . " i.e., "do not allow mortal men to have cause to reproach you for having cheated me" as explained under A.IV.2 of the LSJ entry:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dpari%2Fhmi

54-5: The construction δεῖ σ᾽(ε) ὅπως + future is not unparalleled, according to LSJ:

rarely δεῖ σ᾽ ὅπως δείξεις, = δεῖ σε δεῖξαι, S.Aj.556, cf.Ph.54; “δεῖ σ᾽ ὅπως μηδὲν διοίσεις” Cratin.108; (the full constr. in S.Ph.77 τοῦτο δεῖ σοφισθῆναι . . ὅπως γενήσῃ):


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Ddei%3D

Literally, "You must cheat/deceive the soul/mind of Philoctetes by speaking," i.e., "you must use deceptive talk to cheat Philoctetes."

"Kidnap" for ἐκκλέψεις would not seem to be possible in 54-5, since the object of ἐκκλέψεις is τὴν Φιλοκτήτου ψυχὴν.

LSJ cites this passage: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De%29kkle%2Fptw

See also LSJ κλέπτω A.II: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dkle%2Fptw
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Re: Translation of Sophocles, Philoctetes

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:25 pm

Addendum: From the example in Philoctetes 77, it looks as if, in the expression in the example cited in LSJ from Ajax 556, this passage, and the Cratinus fragment, there is a verb of mental activity understood: ". . . you must [consider/think about/contrive/plan] how you will cheat Ph. by deceptive talk." That would make the ὅπως clause an indirect question.
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