mwh wrote:An interesting and controversial question is whether the continuation (3-4) goes
"and without it(him) not a single thing came into being. What has come into being in it(him) was life" (with punctuation after ουδε ἕν)
mwh wrote:But it's ἐν αὐτω̨̃ not just αὐτω̨̃. "in" or "within"
mwh wrote:I'm sorry, I misjudged your level of knowledge. But I don't see any reason to think that this en autw is any kind of semiticism.
I don't quite understand your point about autw having to be dative of agent because gegonen is perfect. The particular tense used shouldn't make any difference; and dative of agent with any form of gignomai (active not passive in meaning) would be unusual.
I take it that with the alternative punctuation you'd accept "in."
and en autw in the next verse can only mean "in him."
At Mt.9.34, casting out devils "in" Beelzebul (or whoever) is rather specialized usage, Hebrew and/or aramaic I expect but also Greek.
In any case, I think en autw in John's prologue has to be taken at face value, and not as dat. of agent.
Vladimir wrote:The preposition ἐν is often used in this way in the New Testament, just compare its use with such hebrew constructions as "bemelek" (by a king) etc. See also the Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by Abbott-Smith.
jaihare wrote:Where do you find "bemelekh" (במלך - ἐν τῷ βασιλεῖ) in the text in the sense given here (ὃ γέγονεν ἐν αὐτῷ...)?
Vladimir wrote:jaihare wrote:Where do you find "bemelekh" (במלך - ἐν τῷ βασιλεῖ) in the text in the sense given here (ὃ γέγονεν ἐν αὐτῷ...)?
I haven't ever searched it in the text of the OT, it was just an example from Hebrew grammar.
mwh wrote:I should have known better than to answer an NT question
jbradchevy wrote:1) Curious about the use of προς in John 1:1 and John 1:2. Why not συν? Doesn't συν have more to do with togetherness?
jaihare wrote:Vladimir wrote:An example of what, though?
Vladimir wrote:jaihare wrote:An example of what, though?
An example of instrumentative use of the preposition ב from the Introduction to Biblical Hebrew by Thomas Lambdin. Do you think he is wrong?
Moreover, I have already referred to the Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by Abbott-Smith (this example is not in that book, but according to it such constructions as one in Col. 1, 16 are semitisms). If I find a Hebrew Old Testament with search, I will look for an example from the text.
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