Advice: Got a Taste of Greek - Now the Real Work Begins

[mfranks]

I have been studying Latin for almost a year now and I decided to get a litle "taste" of Greek this past weekend, out of curiosity. I have a couple of Greek text books from the 19th Century that I purchased a few years back, knowing that I would one day spend some time with the language.

I read William's "Greek Dialects: Where to Start" post:

If you plan to read any other Greek at all, I strongly recommend starting with Homeric. All later literature references Homer to some degree. Even if you plan to read only philosophy, the Greek philosophers like to quote Homer, too.

Based on his advice, I found a copy of Pharr's Homeric Greek. I lucked out and found a 1970 Hardback copy on Alibris for $20.00.

Some of you may be familiar with me from my Latin posts - where I fully admit my lack of "natural talent" for languages. Regardless, my determination is strong and I've been disciplined with my time, making sure I study every single day. I'm prepared to make a similar effort with Greek and would like some further guidance from those of you who are willing to indulge me.

One of the striking differences that I have noticed so far besides the obvious ones such as the script being different, are all the accent markings and the abscence of the ablative case. I was surprised to learn that Greek is a tonal language - at least more tonal than Latin or French, but less so than say Chinese. [I say more so than French based on the additional accent marks which the Greek language employs.]

It appears to be another dimension of complexity that I wasn't expecting. From what I can gather so far, the various accent marks represent rising and lowering of tones - but the explainations don't appear very clear to me in terms of figuring out on my own exactly how to pronouce these properly. I read the "phonetics" thread where William sugguested a few books which may help. Not so sure I am ready for the more technical discussions on this matter. I'm looking for a more simplistic approach, prefering a more natural methodology than the intellectual one.

How important is it for newbie like me to master the tonal aspects of the language? Are there any good audio CDs?

In terms of learning materials, is there a Lingua Latina equivilent out there? I love LL and think it is a great way to learn Latin. Also, I have found the Cambridge Latin Course to fit my learning style well and use both in my study of Latin.

And lastly... it seems that Kappa and Chi are pronouced the same or nearly the same to me. All the other letters I don't seem to have any trouble pronoucing - at least in my mind. Can anyone show me the difference between these two Greek letters to a native english speaker like me?

Thanks,

Mark

[GlottalGreekGeek]

There is much debate what exactly the accent markings in Ancient Greek meant - the explainations are confusing because the evidence is confusing. However, I think it is better to use a system to differentiate them, even if it's the wrong system, than to ignore them.

And lastly... it seems that Kappa and Chi are pronouced the same or nearly the same to me. All the other letters I don't seem to have any trouble pronoucing - at least in my mind. Can anyone show me the difference between these two Greek letters to a native english speaker like me?

I direct you to Annis' Phonetics 101: The Consonants at http://www.textkit.com/tutorials/200312 ... id=2&tid=5 which explains this as well as I could.

A good short recording for figuring out how to pronounce Ancient Greek (or at least a way to pronounce Ancient Greek) is at Annis' AOIDOI website at http://www.aoidoi.org/articles/epic/recite.pdf

May your hard work in Greek pay off!

[Fabiola]

Good luck with it! I think Oxford published a book called Athenaze (sp?), which is like LL. I saw it while surfing on amazon the other day (it had mixed reviews).

I actually decided earlier today to have a go at Homeric Greek over spring break (which promises to be wet and cold. Perfect for- yes- studying ), and just finished printing out a bit of Pharr's book myself!

[Carola]

Some of you may be familiar with me from my Latin posts - where I fully admit my lack of "natural talent" for languages. Regardless, my determination is strong and I've been disciplined with my time, making sure I study every single day. I'm prepared to make a similar effort with Greek and would like some further guidance from those of you who are willing to indulge me.

I think the most important "natural talent" you need for any skill, be it woodworking or playing the violin or languages, is the ability to stick with it. Sure, some people have good memories or good co-ordination, but without discipline and determination these talents won't help you to succeed.

Many of us are fans of White's textbooks (see under Learning Greek) and I have also used the JACT books, although they are a bit of a nuisance being spread over several volumes (but I guess that sells more books). They will get you reading a story quickly, even at a very basic level. I'm only just past the absolute beginner stage, but by starting with these books I am having a very easy time learning Greek at university.

[mfranks]

Many of us are fans of White's textbooks (see under Learning Greek) and I have also used the JACT books, although they are a bit of a nuisance being spread over several volumes (but I guess that sells more books). They will get you reading a story quickly, even at a very basic level. I'm only just past the absolute beginner stage, but by starting with these books I am having a very easy time learning Greek at university.

Carola,

I own a copy of White's First Greek Book (1889 edition) - I love old books! This is where I got my first "taste" of Greek over the weekend. I also have a copy of the 1891 edition of Goodwin's Greek Grammar. I'm one of these people who will use quite a number of texts and readers until I settle in on a combination that works best for my learning style. Another benefit to this approach is it gives me lots of practice and review of the material.

What are the JACT books you refer to above?

GlottalGreek,

Thanks for the link to the Phonetics Tutorial. It is very well written and clear. I wish I would have read this when I started out with my Latin.

Fabiola,

I checked out Athenaze on Amazon as well and wasn't impressed with the reviews. I thought I would start out wth Pharr and move from there to Attic Greek. I'm wondering if there are other good "Homeric" Greek text books out there.

Enjoy your spring break!

Cheers,

Mark

[GlottalGreekGeek]

The only other Homeric Greek textbook for beginners is Schoder and Horrigan's "A Reading Course in Homeric Greek". Some prefer it over Pharr, but it is somewhat difficult to acquire. I don't know how good it is, but Pharr is good enough, and I would not go through too much extra bother to get the Reading Course books (there are two volumes I believe).

[mfranks]

The only other Homeric Greek textbook for beginners is Schoder and Horrigan's "A Reading Course in Homeric Greek". Some prefer it over Pharr, but it is somewhat difficult to acquire. I don't know how good it is, but Pharr is good enough, and I would not go through too much extra bother to get the Reading Course books (there are two volumes I believe).

Actually, a revised edition is in print now... Focus Publishing has published book 1 and has plans for book 2. You can read sample pieces of various chapters of the book online as well. I'll wait for my Pharr edition before purchasing this version...

Here's the link if any of you are interested:

http://www.pullins.com/Books/01753Readi ... cGreek.htm

Thanks!

Mark

[jelly sum]

I'm facing the same problems with greek pronounciation. I'm in 1st yr beginners latin and decided to buy the Joint Association Of Classical Teachers Greek course for Christmas. Although this course doesn't clearly explain the complex pronounciation of classical greek, I've managed to get hold of the audio recordings which accompany the course. By reading along with the CD you should develope an ear for it soon enough. If u have trouble finding the recording, send me an e-mail wit ur address and I can send u a copy ( assuming the cost for postage is reasonable). The books, however, you buy yourself.

[mfranks]

Hi Jelly Sum,

Thanks for the offer... What do you think of the JACT course? The reviews on Amazon are rather critical of the course. Is the audio any good? One reviewer mentioned that the quality was poor - stating that there's "a lot of noisy background."

For now, I am waiting for my Pharr's "Homeric Greek" and the "Reading Course in Homeric Greek" that I mention above. I'll see how I do with these two books before venturing with the JACT series. Knowing me, I'll end up purchasing it for more reading... Although, I'm a little weary or mixing dialects until I've either mastered or given up on Homeric Greek.

Cheers,

Mark

[jelly sum]

No prob. Well to be honest I haven't been using the JACT course enough to give a proper evaluation. I'm a bit tied up wit Latin and my other college courses at the moment. I am using the JACT course in Latin aswell and I have no complaints really. Having said that, I have a lecturer to guide me through it. If you're studying on your own I think the JACT course would need to be used in conjunction with other materials. The explenations of grammer in paticular can be a bit intimidating. The JACT greek recordings do have a bit of hiss but it doesn't cause any problems. I find it really helpfull. It really brings the language alive cause you're listening to dialogue between people, not just poems or philosophy.

[GlottalGreekGeek]

I have always stayed away from the JACT books mainly because you have to buy a minimum of 3 books to get much out of them, and that price is a bit steep for me. Besides, they never appear in the local used bookstores.

Do they use an Erasmian or more modern reconstructed pronounciation? If you don't know what I'm talking about, do they pronounce the Greek letter 'phi' as in 'philosophy' or as in 'paint'.

[Carola]

Many of us are fans of White's textbooks (see under Learning Greek) and I have also used the JACT books, although they are a bit of a nuisance being spread over several volumes (but I guess that sells more books). They will get you reading a story quickly, even at a very basic level. I'm only just past the absolute beginner stage, but by starting with these books I am having a very easy time learning Greek at university.

Carola,

I own a copy of White's First Greek Book (1889 edition) - I love old books! This is where I got my first "taste" of Greek over the weekend. I also have a copy of the 1891 edition of Goodwin's Greek Grammar. I'm one of these people who will use quite a number of texts and readers until I settle in on a combination that works best for my learning style. Another benefit to this approach is it gives me lots of practice and review of the material.

What are the JACT books you refer to above?


Mark

Sorry I missed your question - a few busy weeks. The JACT series are put out by the Joint Association of Classical Teachers and comprise quite a lot of books from beginner level up to various texts. If you search Amazon or one of the large book sellers you will find them - just search "Reading Greek" (and Amazon usually give you links to the whole series if you find one book).

Carol