help on turkey-turchia-tourkos

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Tigris
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help on turkey-turchia-tourkos

Post by Tigris »

Hi I am new here

I want to learn something.

Is the name turkey coming from byzantine greek "tourkos"?

Who named the anatolia "turkey"?

Does the word tourkos means the turks who came to anatolia in 1071 and dominated it.

Turchia is the name of turkey in latin.


thank you

ThomasGR
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Re: help on turkey-turchia-tourkos

Post by ThomasGR »

Is the name turkey coming from byzantine greek "tourkos"?
I do not understand what you mean with "come". Turks called themselves always so. Being divided in many tribes, they had adopted also a second name (eg. turkemen, kazakh, avar), and they had also a third name according to their current chief khan eg. Seljuk. Seljuks were Turks of the Turkmen tribe and their first Khan had the name Seljuk (=Seljuk Turkmen Turks). Byzantines just made the name "Turk" known to the western world, before them there were the Persians and Chinese who knew them by this name too.

Who named the anatolia "turkey"?
"Turkey" is used for Anatolia in modern days, and especially after the proclamation of the Turkish repiblic in 1923.

Does the word tourkos means the turks who came to anatolia in 1071 and dominated it.
See above the first my reply.

Turchia is the name of turkey in latin.
Latin names are often produced in modern times. In this case Turchia (used for Anatolia) does not note that this name existed before the 20th century. (Edit: in some medieval chronics around 11 century "Turchia" notes the region of Hungary)

Tigris
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Post by Tigris »

Turkey is new name but how old is the name "turchia"? Who named it?
Turchia name is known since 11th century.

I am confused.
Is the name "turchia" refering to anatolia or hungary?

Roma-German Emperor Frederick Barbarossa (1123-1190) is said to have mentioned the name turchia but I am not sure.

Did he mean the hungary region or the anatolia(turkey)

When the europeans said turcs are coming "Mamma Li Turchi" did they mean the hungarians or the turks of anatolia?

Tourkos is a greek word which is very old I believe. Is this the name of turks who came from central asia to anatolia that the byzantines gave?

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Post by IreneY »

I am quite lost I'm afraid, sorry I can't be of any real help but just a clarification: When you are talking about Hungarians, are you perhaps referring to the Mayars?

ThomasGR
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Post by ThomasGR »

Turkey is new name but how old is the name "turchia"? Who named it? Turchia name is known since 11th century.
There is, to my knowledge, only one chronical from 11th century, by a Byzantine emperor, that names the region of Hugnary as Tourkia.

Is the name "turchia" refering to anatolia or hungary?
If you read "tourchia" other than in this byzantine document, than it refers to Turkey and is modern use. This document is called something like "emperatoro estrodano" or like this and is emperor's advices to his son. I don't have time right now to make a search. Better I should not mention that, it just creats confusion.

Roma-German Emperor Frederick Barbarossa (1123-1190) is said to have mentioned the name turchia but I am not sure.
I doubt he used that word. I don't know.

When the europeans said turcs are coming "Mamma Li Turchi" did they mean the hungarians or the turks of anatolia? I don't know about Italians, but maybe it is referring to the siege of Viena.

Tourkos is a greek word which is very old I believe. Is this the name of turks who came from central asia to anatolia that the byzantines gave? Tourkos is a Turkish word they called themselves. The byzantines used to call them following their habits. In the same way the called the Khazars so because they told them it is their name, though they were Turks.

Tigris
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Post by Tigris »

This is what I found;


c.1300, from Fr. Turc, from M.L. Turcus, from Byzantine Gk. Tourkos, national name, of unknown origin.

The country name Turkey (c.1369) is from M.L. Turchia.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?sea ... hmode=none


The name turchia is referring to anatolia I think, not hungary.
What do you say to this?

The turc name was used to refer to turks in anatolia who at the time controlled anatolia. Although this doesn't mean they were the majority in anatolia. Just because they they were dominating it.

this what I found on other webpages. These are just comments.


"The crusaders called Anatolia "Turchia", because they've believed that Turks were the inheritor descendence of the Troyan king Priamos’s son Troilos’ son Turkos."

'Turchia' is nothing more than the Latin form of the Byzantine 'Tourkos'.


I dont which one is correct?

Turchia then originated from greek byzantine "Tourkos" because they were the first to encounter the turks who came from central asia to anatolia..

Or is the name Tourkos referring to somethingelse?

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Post by ThomasGR »

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?sea ... hmode=none
It looks this etymonline site is totally wrong on this.

"The crusaders called Anatolia "Turchia", because they've believed that Turks were the inheritor descendence of the Troyan king Priamos’s son Troilos’ son Turkos."
Nonsense. In the best choice they called it Rumelia (I doubt), since the Seljuks called their empire "Seljuk sultanate of Rumli", but never Tourkia.

These forums are discussing languages (Latin and Greek), and not history or racist stuff.

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