subjunctive in relative clause

[arkadi]

Hi, everybody:
Smyth, 1786 says: "relative clauses requiring the subjunctive MUST have 'an'"; 2545c gives the impression that subjunctive without "an" in relative claues is used in indirect questions only; and yet the only two examples 2553 gives are WITHOUT "an" and are not questions.
What should one make of this?
Thanks in advance.
Arkadi

[Paul]

Hi,

The Attic subjunctive occurs with [size=150]ἄν[/size] only in dependent constructions, e.g., with [size=150]εἰ[/size], with relatives, and with temporal words like [size=150]ὅτε, ἐπεί, κτλ[/size]. This is what Smyth 1768 means.

[size=150]ἄν[/size] can certainly appear in indirect discourse (including questions). If it appears with the subjunctive in direct discourse, it will be retained in indirect discourse provided the subjunctive mood is retained.

If you have Goodwin's Greek Grammar, see 1299.2, 1305.1, 1481, 1484, 1485.

Cordially,

Paul

[arkadi]

The Attic subjunctive occurs with [size=150]ἄν[/size] only in dependent constructions, e.g., with relatives, and with temporal words

Yes, this is how I understood Smyth, 1786. Yet, the first example in Smyth, 2553 (from P.Men. 89e) has subjunctive with relative WITHOUT "an". So, I am wondering:
(1) if Smyth, 1786, is incorrect that the subjunctive MUST have "an" (with relatives);
(2) if so, what semantic difference the presence (resp., absence) of "an" makes in such constructions.
Thanks.
Arkadi
P.S. I do not have Goodwin, unfortunately.

[Paul]

Hi,

Smyth 1768 (and the analogous Goodwin paragraph) is correct.

I suspect that lack of [size=150]ἄν[/size] in the Meno example is because the relative clause is not subordinate (dependent).

See Smyth 2490. Note also his use of "truly subordinate" in 2492. And then recall that the title of Smyth 1768 is "Dependent Clauses with [size=150]ἄν[/size]".

Cordially,

Paul

[arkadi]

I suspect that lack of [size=150]ἄν[/size] in the Meno example is because the relative clause is not subordinate (dependent).

Probably you are right. In 2553c Smyth says that "ordinary relative clauses are explanatory, and (in sense) are equivalent to independent coordinated clauses."
Still, I do not have a clear idea, why (i.e., in what sense) the relative clause in the expample from Meno is "independent".
Are there any clear criteria, allowing one to distinguish between dependent and independent relative clauses?
Thanks.
Arkadi