Ancient Greek last names

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1%homeless
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Ancient Greek last names

Post by 1%homeless »

Well, was there such a thing? I'm trying to find a list of the earliest Greek last names. It's hard to find a list of these, let alone info on this topic. (Please tell me it's at least pre-byzantine! :o )

mraig
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Post by mraig »

The name is Socrates. Socrates Smith.

Seriously, they didn't have them. People identified themselves by patronymic, place of origin, deme (if they were Athenian), etc. Of course, this is sometimes a problem (for us), because there were only so many names, and they got repeated a lot, especially in the same family. There are actually cases where we don't know whether two instances of the same name are the same person or not.

I'm not sure when the Greeks started using last names, but I can't recall ever seeing them even in late antiquity. A quick check of this timeline of ancient authors: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/loeb/timeline.html shows that even in the 5th and 6th century AD, the Greeks still have only one name. (The Romans, of course, always have multiple names).

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Post by 1%homeless »

...shows that even in the 5th and 6th century AD, the Greeks still have only one name.
That's what I feared, but if it's really late, then I'd just go with Modern Greek last names --if I can find that. I've only found a website for modern first names...

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Post by Eureka »

mraig wrote:(The Romans, of course, always have multiple names).
Yes, but the first born usually had the same three names as their fathers, just to annoy us.

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Post by adz000 »

Is the "Akrites" in the name "Digenes Akrites" (the hero of the Byzantine epic Digenes Akrites) a last name? I know absolutely nothing about this, but I have read that the epic preserves memories from the 8th century Byzantine borderlands. If "Akrites" is a last name, rather than a title, perhaps a commentary on this poem would give more information about the development of nomenclature.

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Post by amans »

I've run into this site a couple of times:

http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/project/proposal.html

It seems interesting but I am not sure if it has the answer to the question. But perhaps the editors of the site know.

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Post by Emma_85 »

I guess in ancient times when the population wasn't that large second names weren't needed.
Maybe they came into fashion because the Romans had them?

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Post by xar »

Hi everyone! I'm new to the post

well, about those names, I think that it's quite simple, if you think about it.
When people start living in a community, they have to use a way to identify each other, and tell them apart even when they are not present. so, they use names. Now, where do these names come from? - How are they invented?
The most obvious answer is that anybody would use an existing word (maybe adding a different preffix or suffix) that would best describe the person he wants to name (i.e. describing some physical characteristic, occupation, position in community hierarchy, or anything else that would help tell him/her apart). Think about some common coomon English names/surnames, such as Joy, Victor, Smith, Hunter and so on.
The same applies in Greek. For example, Pericles means 'full of glory', Alexander 'the one who deflects other men', Nikos (Nick) 'winner/victor', Nikolaos 'the one who brings victory to the people / the one who defeats people' etc.
But what happens with names that don't seem to mean anything? The most often case is that they originate from other languages, in which they bear some meaning -as is the case with most Christian names (John, Jacob etc.) or some Greek name like Artemis, Pegasus, etc. which are said to be pre-hellenic.
I might have digressed a bit -sorry.
Now about last names - I think it is quite safe to say that they come in use when a single name like "Hunter" is inadequate to serve the purpose it was invented for -because there are many hunters in the community. So, you add a second name and call the 190cm hunter "Hunter Tall" or the one who is the son of the chief "Hunter Chiefson". Stupid examples -sorry again- but doesn't it remind you of the way Indian names were crafted?
Going a bit further, you can say that -initally at least- there was no real difference between first names and last names. Diferentiation may have come up gradually, due to the fact that the second name need not be as 'personal' as the first, in fact it would be more convenient if it referred to group of people (as a craft-guild, a familly or a nation), since in this way it could also be used to describe o group of persons related to each other. So you might have Joy (=the always glad one) from the goup of the Smiths (=the group of iron casters) = Joy Smith
Of course, as with all conventions, the way that onomatology evolved in each community / culture must have been diverse, which accounts for why did the Romans and the Spanish end up with three names each -at least, or why did some Indians use paragraph-long descriptive names.

So, the ancient Greeks used one name for each person and in most cases further specified who that person was by employing his birthplace, his ancestors or his occupation. These secondary descriptions were gradually standardized -and finally became last names (famiily names) passed on from generation to generation.

I know I've written quite a long meassage -I hope I have not tired you- but I think that sometimes following a step-to-step reasoning using common sense really answers some questions.

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Post by 1%homeless »

LOL! :lol: Emma is finally Emma! Does that mean you love yourself more than Johnny? Since this is my thread you can mention him all you want :lol: (...well, almost all you want.:wink:)

Thanks for the link amans, it looks like a good start. Really though, I'm just trying to find a greek last name for this female character that I'm creating, but I know my curisity would make me research more than I have to.

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Post by xar »

If the female character you're looking a last name for lives in the antiquity, you're out of lack. the best you can do is use her father's or husband's first name in the genitive, although this should be used more as an adjectival complement than as a last name.
if you're looking for a modern last name you might consider:
Mela(s), Aleksiou(/ios), Kontopoulou(/os), Dendrinou(/os)...
Note: I'm giving 2 alternatives for each name : the 1st one is a name as it would be in Greek (i.e. in the femine and/or genitive). I the brackets is the same name in the masculin, 1st singular, which is commonly (and stupidly, according to my opinion) used when renderring Greek names into English.
Hope I was of help.

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Post by annis »

From Greek: A History of the Language and its Speakers, by Geoffrey Horrocks, p.139 (with some context - most interesting bit bold):
To add to these difficulties, governmental complacency had begun to set in following the death of Basíleios II in 1025. The military aristocracy, grown rich from warfare, was now using its wealth to buy out the peasantry, thus undermining the ability of the central administration to control its land and people. But where earlier emperors had sought to stem the tide by legislation, their eleventh-century successors did nothing, and the resultant subversion of the theme system was soon to prove disastrous.

The new landed gentry increasingly objected to living under what was effectively martial law imposed from Constantinople, and the most powerful families sought to establish a more independent relationship with the distant capital. The successful integrated autocracy of the middle Byzantine period thus gradually gave way to a more fragmented social system based on the local wealth of a semi-detached hereditary aristocracy, a trend which also initiated the development of a semi-feudalized society in rural areas. It was in this period that the use of surnames first became routine, as individuals sought to advertise their affinities with the great provincial families (e.g. Phokas, Komnenos, Doukas, Palaiologos), some of which were soon to emerge as imperial dynasties.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by 1%homeless »

Great! :D

So byzantine it is... This info will help with making up Greek surnames --or maybe hinder...

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Post by Democritus »

annis wrote:From Greek: A History of the Language and its Speakers, by Geoffrey Horrocks, p.139
Wow, this looks like an interesting book. But it's hard to find! :)

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Post by adz000 »

A bit more on the development of surnames in Greek, if anyone is still curious. This is taken from the Lexicon of Greek Personal names:

http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/names/modern.html

Cheers,
Adam

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Diogenes Akrites

Post by Jefferson Cicero »

adz000:

I have only skimmed this thread, so someone else may have already answered your question, but in case no one has, the 'Akrites' in Diogenes Akrites is a descriptive apellation. An akrites was a border lord in the border lands between the Byzantine empire and the Arab caliphate, lands which were not really under the control of either much of the time, and when they were officially under control of one of tjhe empires, it was often only nominally. Border lords often switched fealties to suit the need, advantage, or the times.

'Diogenes Akrites' means 'Diogenes the Border Lord', and so 'Akrites' is not a surname. Even 'Diogenes' means 'dual heritage', or in modern terms, 'half breed' since he was half Greek and half Arab.

When I first heard of the mythic hero, I also wondered if 'Akrites' was an early Greek surname. I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't.

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by the way

Post by Jefferson Cicero »

Does anyone know where to find a copy of Diogenes Akrites? I cant find it anywhere online or off.

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