Satan sweating - apt translation & grammar poblems

[Kladaradatsj]

Hello.

(Please do remember English is not my native language. Dutch is.)

My class has received an assignment from our professor of Greek (for the course Encyclopedia of Classical Philology actually).
We are supposed to critically examine a few lines of text he has given us, and we have to explain why a/certain word(s) are false, or correct.

The text is Oecumenius' Commentarius in Apocalypsin. My line is 157,13-16 (VIII,62-65). It reads:
polla\ ga/r fasi tw=n a)galma/twn kai\ i(droi= kai\ dokei= lalei=n e)vergei/a| diabolikh=|. fasi\ de\ kai\ dido/nai xa/ragma kai\ sfragi=da to\n a)nti/xriston tou= oi)kei/ou o)no/matos, h(=s a)/neu ou)/te w)nh/setai/ tis ou)/te mh\n e)kpoih/sei.

(the 'fasi\' is in bold script because it is the form I must work on.)

In my rather unfashionable translation this becomes:
For they say: "many of the statues both sweat and appear to speak with a diabolical inner force." They then also say that the Antichrist gives a mark and a seal of his own name, without which no one will buy(?) nor verily put out(?).

This is later Greek, and not our Attic buddies'.

First things first then:
1) Is the 'polla\ fasi i(droi= kai\ dokei= lalei=n' in the first sentence a form of direct speech, in which, unfortunately, my text does not provide the brackets? Or is is an exotic form of Accusativus cum Infinitivo, thus rather an Accusativus cum Finitivo?
My guess is that it is the first option, because I could not find any reference to an AcI that uses a conjugated form instead of an infinitive.
But why then does the direct speech switch to indirect in sentence number two, which obviously features a genuine AcI?
Or perhaps 'fasi' is used here as a form alike to 'a)lla/' with an imperative?

2) The real problem: the second 'fasi\'. Apparently all remaining manuscripts give that version. Yet according to my professor there is something wrong with it.
And indeed, the accent is incorrect. As an enclitic, it should not be accented; there is no enclitic following it, and it does not follow a word with an acute accent on the penult.
So I think there has been a problem in the proces of copying: I believe one scribe must have written his 'de\', which follows immediatly after 'fasi\', rather badly.
Since Greek was copied in capitals those days, and the capital delta and a badly written capital gamma do resemble each other (slight tilt, longer line and new line), I think the original text read *'fasi/ ge', which would account for the accent on 'fasi\'. If a scribe would read *'fasi/ de' however, he might be inclined to 'correct' to *'fasi\ de\...', which is the surviving version today.
Please tell me what you think about this particular item.

3) I am also facing a problem to translate the 'w)nh/setai/' and the 'e)kpoih/sei'. Apparently those verbs mean 'buy' and 'put out' respectively, the latter also featuring translations as narrow as 'give away for adoption'.
I, however, fail to understand the correct meaning here. Does this mean that no one buys anything or gives anything away without that satanic seal? I am afraid I cannot give you a context either; we were told there was no translation for this text.
Could you please help me on this one too?

I would be very grateful for any help, or advice.

[whiteoctave]

i doubt your focus lies specifically on the accent. emendation of de to ge is certainly easy whether palaeographically or in sense (and indeed Porson criticised Toup, so i recall, for being excessively fond of emending passages with ge). the accent with ge however would be oxytone not barytone. furthermore, the current accent of φασί is correct, for although it is enclitic when beginning a sentence or clause it regains its accent. therefore, besides the fact that a great deal of manuscripts do not themselves transmit accents, there is nothing wrong with the accents as they stand.
do you know what kind of error you are expected to find?

~D

[Bombichka]

I think the first "fasi" is not a verbum regens of an ACI, but what we would call today a parenthetical part of the phrase:

'many statues sweat and seem like talking, they say'

or:

'many statues, so they say (as they say), sweat and seem like talking'

as to the second "fasi" with the grave mark, I would suggest that this is a case of "hyper-correction" on the part of some medieval scribe not so well acquainted with the subtleties of classical Greek accentuation.

as to "ekpoihsei", LSJ gives the meaning 'to procure' which can be found in Philostratus and suits fine the context of your passage.

however, the Seal of the Antichrist in the Apocalypse to which our text is a commentary is described in the following way (Ap. 13.17):

"... And that no man might buy or sell (agorasai h pwlhsai), save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number if his name".

I think Oecumenius has in mind exactly that part of the Apocalypse and so "wnhsetai... ekpoihsei" may be a dirext parallel to "agorasai h pwlhsai" from the New Testament passage.

thus, "ekpoiew" may mean here "put out, offer for sale" which is not illogical although this meaning of the verb is very poorly attested.

[Kladaradatsj]

Thank you for your replies, whiteoctave and Bombichka.


Whiteoctave, thank you for pointing out the accentuation on the second "fasi\". I have read the rules for enclitics again, and stumbled on this particular point. Mea culpa. It is then, I believe, a case like "tine\s me\n xruso\n dido/asin, tine\s d' ou)/."

Perhaps there is indeed no error, but the task was merely to try and find one in order to better study the sentence? Still, if there is one, we tried hard...


Bombachki, I agree with you that the first (unaccented) "fasi" does not govern the first sentence. In that way it would be alike to "methinks" added to a sentence; some sort of an "oimai" connected only loosely to the sentence structure (I happen to have only just translated a such sentence in Lucianus' Dialogues).

I would also like to thank you very much for the effort on "wnhsetai" and "ekpoihsei". Indeed, the mystery slowly unfolds to me now. I think I will translate as 'dat waarlijk niemand iets zal kopen of verkopen' = 'that verily no one will buy or sell anything'.

[Kladaradatsj]

Apparently, the editor was wrong at using the second "fasi". All surviving MSS do give that form, but it is incorrect.

It seems that a scribe has made a mistake, which all following scribes (and the editor) have copied: the second "fasi" originally read "fhsi", but was influenced by the first.

And indeed, the context makes things more clear; the first "fasi" is indeed some sort of loose form, merely expressing "many of the images - that's what they say at least- sweat and...", whereas the second actually introduces a quote from the Apocalypse. It's subject should therefore be the author of the Apocalypse, thus requiring a third person singular.

Actually, none of my fellow students either managed to solve their sentences in a 100% correct way. Quite a difficult assignment.

Still, thanks to everybody who's helped me.

[Skylax]

Deleted

[Bombichka]

...whereas the second actually introduces a quote from the Apocalypse. It's subject should therefore be the author of the Apocalypse, thus requiring a third person singular.

I find this to be a little too speculative, since one can use "they say" having in mind a single author much in the same way one can state "some people do whatever they want" implying one particular person.
so we needn't necessarily suggest that the second "fasi" is mistaken for "fhsi". that would be a bit pedantic.