the form "bebo^san"

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arkadi
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the form "bebo^san"

Post by arkadi »

Hi, everybody:
Perseus says "bebo^san" is the "perf. part. act. fem. acc. sing" of "baino^", and this fits the context (Plotinus 1.6.9.15) well.
But I still cannot understand how exactly it is formed, given the LSJ entry and the rules.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Arkadi

mraig
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Post by mraig »

Here in the mid-sized Liddell & Scott, I have 'bebo^s' listed as the Attic perfect participle. This is a contracted form of the epic perf. ppl. they list, 'bebao^s'. Turn to Smyth section 309, which lists the declension for perfect participles, and look at note a: hesto^s (from histe^mi, contracted from hestao^s) is declined: hesto^s, hesto^sa, hestos. (see also Smyth 704a where they explicity state that this is the case for baino^)

So bebo^sa is supposedly contracted from bebosauia, but probably just used on analogy from present -a stem participles or something. Even the 'bebo^s' form is syncopated from 'bebako^s'

So don't feel too bad - it's really impossible to memorize all of the variations in declension/conjugation you'll find in ancient Greek, since the Greeks themselves did it different ways when they felt like it.

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

mraig wrote:Turn to Smyth section 309, which lists the declension for perfect participles, and look at note a: hesto^s (from histe^mi, contracted from hestao^s) is declined: hesto^s, hesto^sa, hestos.
Thanks! this is very helpful.
BTW, do know, what does Smyth mean in 309 Smyth by saying of the genetive "hesto^tos" that its accent is "irregular"? It looks perfectly regular to me :cry:

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Post by annis »

arkadi wrote: BTW, do know, what does Smyth mean in 309 Smyth by saying of the genetive "hesto^tos" that its accent is "irregular"? It looks perfectly regular to me :cry:
The accent should be acute, not circumflex.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

annis wrote:
arkadi wrote:The accent should be acute, not circumflex.
Why? In 164 Smyth says that "the penult, if accented and long, takes the circumflex when the ultima is short by nature." This is exactly our case, isn't it?

Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 »

No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

Emma_85 wrote:No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?

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Post by annis »

arkadi wrote:Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?
In 309 he shows that omega is from the contraction of αό. The pre-contraction accenting would normally be expected in this case, but instead the ἑστῶτος is accented as though it were formed from *ἑστάοτος.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

annis wrote:
arkadi wrote:The pre-contraction accenting would normally be expected in this case.
Thanks, I did not know this. Could you please give examples of such a normal pre-contraction, when, after contraction, the long penultima produced by it gets acute (although the ultima is short) ?

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Post by annis »

arkadi wrote:Could you please give examples of such a normal pre-contraction, when, after contraction, the long penultima produced by it gets acute (although the ultima is short) ?
Smyth section 156, especially note A, gives the details about why this happens, but gives no further instances mirroring your example. I'd have to spend more time with a grammar, but I'd expect to see it mostly with contracted 2nd perfect and 2nd aorist participles.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by Emma_85 »

arkadi wrote:
Emma_85 wrote:No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?
ooh... sorry to confuse you. I didn't look the word up in smith. They way you wrote it I thought it had an omicron there. We normally use the 'w' for an omega.

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Post by Bombichka »

I think that the accentuation of ἑστῶτος, βεβῶτος, etc., may have changed after the contraction, according to the general rule that when the penultimate is long and the ultimate is short and the accent falls on the penultimate, it should be circumflex.

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