the form "bebo^san"
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm
the form "bebo^san"
Hi, everybody:
Perseus says "bebo^san" is the "perf. part. act. fem. acc. sing" of "baino^", and this fits the context (Plotinus 1.6.9.15) well.
But I still cannot understand how exactly it is formed, given the LSJ entry and the rules.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Arkadi
Perseus says "bebo^san" is the "perf. part. act. fem. acc. sing" of "baino^", and this fits the context (Plotinus 1.6.9.15) well.
But I still cannot understand how exactly it is formed, given the LSJ entry and the rules.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Arkadi
-
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:24 am
Here in the mid-sized Liddell & Scott, I have 'bebo^s' listed as the Attic perfect participle. This is a contracted form of the epic perf. ppl. they list, 'bebao^s'. Turn to Smyth section 309, which lists the declension for perfect participles, and look at note a: hesto^s (from histe^mi, contracted from hestao^s) is declined: hesto^s, hesto^sa, hestos. (see also Smyth 704a where they explicity state that this is the case for baino^)
So bebo^sa is supposedly contracted from bebosauia, but probably just used on analogy from present -a stem participles or something. Even the 'bebo^s' form is syncopated from 'bebako^s'
So don't feel too bad - it's really impossible to memorize all of the variations in declension/conjugation you'll find in ancient Greek, since the Greeks themselves did it different ways when they felt like it.
So bebo^sa is supposedly contracted from bebosauia, but probably just used on analogy from present -a stem participles or something. Even the 'bebo^s' form is syncopated from 'bebako^s'
So don't feel too bad - it's really impossible to memorize all of the variations in declension/conjugation you'll find in ancient Greek, since the Greeks themselves did it different ways when they felt like it.
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm
Thanks! this is very helpful.mraig wrote:Turn to Smyth section 309, which lists the declension for perfect participles, and look at note a: hesto^s (from histe^mi, contracted from hestao^s) is declined: hesto^s, hesto^sa, hestos.
BTW, do know, what does Smyth mean in 309 Smyth by saying of the genetive "hesto^tos" that its accent is "irregular"? It looks perfectly regular to me
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 3399
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
- Location: Madison, WI, USA
- Contact:
The accent should be acute, not circumflex.arkadi wrote: BTW, do know, what does Smyth mean in 309 Smyth by saying of the genetive "hesto^tos" that its accent is "irregular"? It looks perfectly regular to me
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1564
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
- Location: London
No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm
Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?Emma_85 wrote:No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 3399
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
- Location: Madison, WI, USA
- Contact:
In 309 he shows that omega is from the contraction of αό. The pre-contraction accenting would normally be expected in this case, but instead the ἑστῶτος is accented as though it were formed from *ἑστάοτος.arkadi wrote:Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 3399
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
- Location: Madison, WI, USA
- Contact:
Smyth section 156, especially note A, gives the details about why this happens, but gives no further instances mirroring your example. I'd have to spend more time with a grammar, but I'd expect to see it mostly with contracted 2nd perfect and 2nd aorist participles.arkadi wrote:Could you please give examples of such a normal pre-contraction, when, after contraction, the long penultima produced by it gets acute (although the ultima is short) ?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
-
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 1564
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
- Location: London
ooh... sorry to confuse you. I didn't look the word up in smith. They way you wrote it I thought it had an omicron there. We normally use the 'w' for an omega.arkadi wrote:Sorry, I am a bit confused. What omicron do you have in mind? We are discussing the form "hesto^tos". I see only one omicron here, namely, the ultima. And the penultima here is omega. Right?Emma_85 wrote:No that's not our case here.
The paenultima has a circumflex only if it is a long vowl and the ultima is a short vowl, otherwise the paenultima has the acute. An omicron is a short vowl though, as opposed to the omega, so in this case the word should actually have an acute, but it's got a circumflex instead.
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:58 pm