Yhevhe wrote:Some days ago I found out this game for practicing chinese tones and I'm wondering if the way they are pronounced may be the same as greek tones should be pronounced. In the intro page there are four ma's, if you put the cursor over every of them you will hear the pronunciation. There is a flat tone, an "oxytone", a low tone, and something that may be contrary to a circumflex. I'd apreciate someone's suggestions about the relation between the tones in the two languages.
Yhevhe wrote:Some days ago I found out this game for practicing chinese tones and
I'm wondering if the way they are pronounced may be the same as greek tones should be pronounced.
annis wrote:That's fun! I went around reciting those very four syllables when I first studied Chinese.
annis wrote:I'm used to the Mandarin 4th tone being fairly abrupt.
....then what about the greek falling tone? Is it supposed to mark just a flat tone?
Where can I look to find arguments about the grave being pronounced like a lower acute?
1%homeless wrote:http://arts.anu.edu.au/linguistics/Peop ... /pitch.htm
Grr. I don't believe there is any justification for sticking a glottal stop between non-diphthong vowel sequences.
1%homeless wrote:He didn't mention anything about a glottal stop in that page. You probably are refering to his performances.
I haven't listened to them for a while. Is it that all unjustified?
Although, I don't prefer them myself, I remember latin might have some glottal stops...?
It is tempting to insert glottal stops because of some chunky vowel clusters in Greek,
As may have Greek in various contexts, probably like most languages - at the beginning of phrases starting with a vowel, after a pausel.
Astraea wrote:When I first looked at the article I thought the author was claiming Greek pronunciation had never changed since Homeric times, but on a more careful reading I saw that he is not going that far. He is mainly saying we can never be sure about ancient pronunciations. That, unfortuneately, is true since we can't go back in time and listen to people talking (I wish we could!).
Section 11 wrote:AU, EU and HU. The diphtongs AY, EY and HY retain the pronunciation of both letters, but already by the VIth c. B.C. the U is sounded as a consonant: v or f: av or af, ev or ef, and iv, or if. This is proved beyond possible doubt by the mistake of the stone-cutters in substituting F (digamma, which corresponded to the Phoenician letter waw, and had the sound of v) in place of [face=spionic]u[/face].
On the subject of pitch accent he questions it somewhat, but says he doesn't have time to treat it in detail. (Then goes into a long discussion too long to reproduce here!). He does point out that the accenting could have involved both stress and pitch. I think that is an important point.
I find that when I raise the pitch of a syllable it also ends up being more strongly stressed. Its almost impossible for me not to do that, in fact. But I'm a native speaker of English. I'd be interested to know if native speakers of other languages find this to be the case for them too.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:My main problem lies with the length of the short acute Greek vowels. I can regress to pubescense on any given syllable you throw at me, but not without making it much longer (let alone stressful) in the process.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:The answer lies in the question, Astraea. Speak your Greek like you are asking and questioning everything, because in English pitch overrides stress during questions.
Eureka wrote:The problem is that in English questions, the pitch rise is sudden, but in Greek it appears that the pitch rise was slow coupled with a sharp fall.
Astraea wrote:Eureka wrote:The problem is that in English questions, the pitch rise is sudden, but in Greek it appears that the pitch rise was slow coupled with a sharp fall.
Do you mean a slow rise throughout the sentence or within a word or within a syllable?
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