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Today's Composition Assignment: Blame

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Today's Composition Assignment: Blame

Postby annis » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:08 pm

The theme: people who steal books from libraries.

Iambics are the customary meter for abuse, but this isn't required. I'll post mine in a few days.
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Re: Today's Composition Assignment: Blame

Postby mingshey » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:38 am

I cannot make up any kind of poetic meters out of my limited hoard of words.

Just this far: 8)

[face=SPIonic]w} biblou/s te membra/naj te kai\ pukti/daj kle/ptwn
e)k biblioqh/kwn e)j h(/nde ou)de/noj w)/y du/natoj o(ra/ein
e)k th=j membra/nhj w(\s Qw\r a)rkti/wn ai)=ga h)\ bou=n teu/ceij
katakau/sei te tw=n mhri/a )Apo/llwni e(khbo/lw|;
h)\ e)k biblw=n koilw=n nh=as koi/las kai\ qoa\s teu/ceij
pleu/seij te e)c e)pinei/ou leukofai/ou e)pi\ libikh/n;[/face]


at line 6, for [face=SPIonic]libiko/j[/face], I'm not sure if I'd better put it in feminine implying [face=SPIonic]patri/j, poli/j,[/face] or [face=SPIonic]gh=[/face], or neut. implying [face=SPIonic]e)pi/neion[/face].
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Re: Today's Composition Assignment: Blame

Postby annis » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:59 pm

Gosh.

mingshey wrote:at line 6, for [face=SPIonic]libiko/j[/face], I'm not sure if I'd better put it in feminine implying [face=SPIonic]patri/j, poli/j,[/face] or [face=SPIonic]gh=[/face], or neut. implying [face=SPIonic]e)pi/neion[/face].


I am not sure either.

I am a bit confused by line 2 (specifically [face=spionic]w)/y[/face]), which leaves me a bit unsure about the surrounding lines, but I like it. I am surprised to see [face=spionic]Qw/r[/face] here.
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Postby mingshey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:58 am

Well, I tried to say, in lines 1 and 2, something like,
"O (you who's) stealing(or, conceals) papyri and parchments and codices from libraries to where nobody's eye can see..."

Yes, it doesn't indeed make quite a good sense with the following lines. And I see that, with [face=SPIonic]w)/y[/face], [face=SPIonic]dunato/j[/face] must be feminine, [face=SPIonic]dunath/[/face]. And the accent was also wrong.
:oops:
[face=SPIonic]w} biblou/s te membra/naj te kai\ pukti/daj kle/ptwn
e)k biblioqh/kwn e)j h(/nde ou)de/noj w)/y dunath/ o(ra/ein
[/face]

Corrections are always welcome. :)
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Postby whiteoctave » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:51 pm

nothing worse than bibliokleptomaniacs! i would have thought choliambs, aka scazons, would have been more suited to invective. i like your choice of diction, mingshey.

[face=SPIonic]fe/r' ei0pe/ moi su/, kle/pta fau~le tw~n de/ltwn
bi/blwn te, tw~| Porsw~ni tw~| te Bentlei/w|
ou\k e0ntroph_n e1xeij ge; lei=pe, pantou=rge,
sofwta&twn tau=t' e1rga toi=j sofoi=j h{sson.[/face]


~D
Last edited by whiteoctave on Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby annis » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:41 pm

I'm afraid my offering is going to seem labored after whiteoctave's.

[face=spionic]piai/netai mh\n a)fro/nwj u(/lh| mo/non
kle/pthj bi/blou lai/margoj, ou)de/ tini lo/gw|.
ei)/t' a)\n spara/ssh| poikilw=n e(o\n do/mon
ta\ zwgrafh/mat' e)celw/n, grafa\j balw/n,
ei)/t' a)\n menoinw=n a)/rguro/n sfe pwle/h|,
katesqie/sqw qhrsi/ q' a(rpa/soisi/ te. [/face]


I apologize for the second line.

Edit: fixed 4th line.
Last edited by annis on Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby annis » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:48 pm

mingshey wrote:Well, I tried to say, in lines 1 and 2, something like,
"O (you who's) stealing(or, conceals) papyri and parchments and codices from libraries to where nobody's eye can see..."

[face=SPIonic]w} biblou/s te membra/naj te kai\ pukti/daj kle/ptwn
e)k biblioqh/kwn e)j h(/nde ou)de/noj w)/y dunath/ o(ra/ein
[/face]

Corrections are always welcome. :)


I would say you should use [face=spionic]e)/nqa[/face] for the "(to) where ..." idea, possibly with a participle phrase with [face=spionic]a)/gw, fe/rw, lamba/nw[/face] or something similar.

Also, we're not allowed to not contract [face=spionic]o(ra/w[/face].
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby whiteoctave » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:45 am

thanks W, i very much like your poem, especially the way it reads, the last line being especially carping.
i fear your fourth line breaks Porson's Law, but it shouldn't be too difficult to change.

~D
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Postby annis » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:06 pm

whiteoctave wrote:i fear your fourth line breaks Porson's Law, but it shouldn't be too difficult to change.


Argh! I ran into Mr Porson several times writing this, and managed to placate him for the other lines.

Hmm. [face=spionic]grafa\j balw/n[/face]?
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Postby whiteoctave » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:21 pm

yes, RP is an annoyingly pervasive presence. it is amusing to note that in a set of seventeen iambic lines written as an undergraduate my age he breaks the law he was to discover no less than thrice.
[face=SPIonic]grafa_j[/face] or [face=SPIonic]xa&rtaj[/face] is fine.

~D
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Postby annis » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:26 pm

whiteoctave wrote:yes, RP is an annoyingly pervasive presence.


A shame [face=spionic]Porsw=ni[/face] isn't a cretic.
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Postby Kasper » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:57 am

No, don't worry, I am not coming late to this assignment with some primitive attempt. My attention is, although quite late, drawn by these two comments:

Annis wrote:Iambics are the customary meter for abuse


whiteoctave wrote: i would have thought choliambs, aka scazons, would have been more suited to invective.


What determines what meter is fit or a certain subject? Where can I find examples of this, or of an overview of (all) meters and associated subjects?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby annis » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:29 am

Kasper wrote:What determines what meter is fit or a certain subject?


Tradition. Except the rules for such pairing of meter and subject are never really clear-cut or fixed. Nagy discusses praise and blame poetry in The Best of the Achaeans.

The choliambs were invented by Hipponax whose poetry is famously angry (one author calls them squalid) so those meters were considered appropriate for venting for quite a while. But eventually this association faded and Babrius could write his quite tame verse versions of Aesopian fables in choliambs.

Certain cola and meters sometimes had associations with particular religious cults (the ithyphallic for songs for the phallophoria, etc.) or particular regions ("cretics"). But these associations don't seem to preclude the cola from being used widely elsewhere.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:52 am

Thanks Will! Great information as usual.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby auctor » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:32 am

Sorry for coming in late to this discussion but Aristotle in Poetics, round about 1449 describes iambics as being suitable.

... these others began by composing invectives. [...], and it is still called iambics today, from being the metre in which they wrote 'iambs', or lampoons, against one another.

per Penelope Murray & T S Dorsch, 'Classical Literary Criticism', Penguin 2000

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