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Translation Q: Choice of Heracles

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Translation Q: Choice of Heracles

Postby JauneFlammee » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:06 pm

I need a bit of help getting the sense of the following: Here's a perseus link to the text if context is needed.
(Xen. Memorobilia. ) . It is 2.1.25 in Perseus.


A charming and rather beautiful mysterious woman had just promised Hercules a life of softness,ease and luxury if he befriends her.

Then comes this:
[face=SPIonic] e)a\n de/ pote ge/nhtai/ tis u(poyi/a spa/news a)f' w(=n* e)/stai tau=ta,[/face]

followed by something like "do not be afraid, I will not lead you down a path of toil.."

Here is my best guess.

"If some suspicion should come along, and this suspicion is (making you feel) deprived of any of these things, "

This one has lost me unless I randomly insert words, like I did above.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: Translation Q: Choice of Heracles

Postby annis » Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:34 am

JauneFlammee wrote:[face=SPIonic] e)a\n de/ pote ge/nhtai/ tis u(poyi/a spa/news a)f' w(=n* e)/stai tau=ta,[/face]

followed by something like "do not be afraid, I will not lead you down a path of toil.."

Here is my best guess.

"If some suspicion should come along, and this suspicion is (making you feel) deprived of any of these things, "


From the star in the Greek, I assume you cut and paste this out of the Perseus page. Did you click on the wee star? That takes you to a commentary, which is often quite useful. Here it says that the antecedent to the relative is dropped, [face=spionic]spa/newj tou/twn a)f' w(=n[/face].

"And if ever some suspicion of/about a lack of those things from which these will be/come"... chill, dude.

It seems she's telling him not to worry about how things would work.
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τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Translation Q: Choice of Heracles

Postby Skylax » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:19 am

annis wrote:It seems she's telling him not to worry about how things would work.


Yes, the pleasures evoked before cause a lot of spendings. [face=SPIonic]Kaki/a[/face] says that Herakles would not have to earn money by working himself "in case there will be a suspicion of lack of the things (means) from where these things (the various pleasures) will come."

This prevents an objection from Herakles : "Wow! but who will PAY for all that?"
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Postby JauneFlammee » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:42 pm

Thanks William, the 'stars' are very helpful: I hadn't even noticed them before. Thanks Skylax, I get the sense of the passage now.

A question on ettiquete: I'm going to be reading the whole 'Choice of Heracles', should I keep posting questions to this same thread or start new threads - or will it be considered poor form to post many questions on the same piece of text ?

Here is my latest question: from line 30:
The good girl has just explained how if you want chilled wine in summer, you must run around fetching snow. And if you want to sleep well on the bed, the bed and (its accompiniments) must be prepared. Then comes this.

[face=SPIonic] a)lla\ dia\ to\ mhde\n e)/xein o(/ ti poih=|j u(/pnou e)piqumei=j: ta\ d' a)frodi/sia pro\ tou= dei=sqai a)nagka/zeij, pa/nta mhxanwme/nh kai\ gunaici\ toi=j a)ndra/si xrwme/nh: ou(/tw ga\r paideu/eij tou\j seauth=j fi/louj, th=j me\n nukto\j u(bri/zousa, th=j d' h(me/raj to\ xrhsimw/taton katakoimi/zousa[/face]

I think I'm missing the sense of it, but here is my translation.

This is not toil (preparing all these things), but if you desire to have nothing to do, you desire sleep(?). (ie: to not even be alive basically). You will be forced to be bound to things of Aphrodite (IE you will be imprisoned to the promised pleasures)(?) All work is useful to women and men. The things you educate yourself in become loved (by you)(?), (If you follow the path of the bad girl) you will spend all night [face=SPIonic]u(bri/zousa[/face], and sleep through the days, which are most useful. (more useful than nights).

I think you can get the jist of my questions by my translation effort, I put question marks after the parts that especially confused me: and I'll leave it at that for brevity.
Thanks again.
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Postby Skylax » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:13 pm

JauneFlammee wrote:This is not toil (preparing all these things), but if you desire to have nothing to do, you desire sleep(?). (ie: to not even be alive basically).

"this is not because of toil ([face=SPIonic]dia/[/face] with accusative) but because you have got nothing to do (due to the fact of not having what you should do), that you are longing for sleep."

You will be forced to be bound to things of Aphrodite (IE you will be imprisoned to the promised pleasures)(?)

"You use to carry by force* the things of Aphrodite (physical love) before needing it ([face=SPIonic]pro\ tou= dei=sqai[/face])", i. e. you make desire rise artificially (cf. before : "you eat before being hungry, you drink before being thirsty...")
* [face=SPIonic]a)nagka/zeij[/face] active voice
All work is useful to women and men.

... "preparing all (kinds of) tricks ([face=SPIonic]mhxanwme/nh[/face]) and using men as women" (but Plato and many others don't find it so reprehensible: it was aristocratic behaviour)
The things you educate yourself in become loved (by you)(?), (If you follow the path of the bad girl)

"So you (adressing the Bad Girl) educate your own friends ([face=SPIonic]seauth=j[/face] "of yourself")...
you will spend all night [face=SPIonic]u(bri/zousa[/face],

..."maltreating (them) by night" (by artificially rising all kind of desires)
and sleep through the days, which are most useful. (more useful than nights).

"and making (them) sleep during the most useful part of the day."

For a translation see Perseus :
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0208&layout=&loc=2.1.1., and look for para 30.

Hoping you understand my English...
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