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Is this modern Grek or koine?

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Is this modern Grek or koine?

Postby John L » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:45 am

Here is a link that has the apostles creed in Greek. Is it Koine or Modern? I don't recognize some parts of the grammar. http://www.creeds.net/ancient/apostles.htm
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Postby Demetrius » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:44 am

I'd say that it is Kathareuousa, neither Koine nor Modern, but something between the two. This isn't the original text of [face=spionic]Pisteu/w[/face]. You can find it here (unfortunately without polytonic): www.christianity.gr/creed.php
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Postby John L » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:23 pm

Thanks!

Your link has the Nicene Creed and not the Apostles Creed, though very close. I don't think the Holy Orthodox Church uses the Apostles Creed as the Roman Catholic Church does for catechumens before baptism.

Thanks for the link! I will enjoy exploring it!

John Litteral litteral@dragg.net
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Postby Demetrius » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:41 pm

Ehmmm... Sorry, I didn't know the difference between the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed. :oops: Actually, I knew only the former. However, I think that the text in your link is written in a mixed language, let me say a "simplified" Koine.
What is more, I realised that the link I gave before belongs to a group which is not acknowledged by the "official" Orthodox Church. :oops: Here, there is a much more reliable link: http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/greek/c ... turgy7.htm (it also offers a polytonic version of the text). :D
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Postby John L » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:36 am

Demetrius,

I noticed that it is very simple. I have noticed that there are alot of endings with "thonta" or "thenta." I will ask a friend of mine who speaks a few different dialects of Greek and see what he says. And I'll paste his response on here.
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Postby Demetrius » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:27 am

John L wrote:Demetrius,

I noticed that it is very simple. I have noticed that there are alot of endings with "thonta" or "thenta." I will ask a friend of mine who speaks a few different dialects of Greek and see what he says. And I'll paste his response on here.


Actually, I am a Greek too... :) I can read the text in your link very easily, so, if you cannot recognise some types, feel free to ask me. I found this text easier than a typical text from the "hellenistic" or "roman period", so I supposed that it belongs to a posterior period of the greek language (but I may be wrong).
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Postby John L » Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:33 pm

Peter Papuotsis, who is a Greek, is actually translating the LXX right now for the Holy Orthodox Church. He said this,
I know this Greek as Ecclesiastical Greek which is derived from koine Greek. However, I would not call it simplified. This is polished and refined Greek, although still konie. By the time the Creeds were written, they were written by educated Greek-Speakers so its more of a refined konie Greek, but not a simplied version. Simplified konie is found in some part of the New testament.

However, if you were to compare the Creed Greek with St. Paul's Greek you would find that they are the same quality.
I hope this helps. It has been a mystery to me for about 2 weeks. I have been memorizing it so I can pray the Rosary in Greek, and the Apostles Creed is at the beginning of the Rosary. I have the Lords Prayer down pat and also the Hail Mary in Greek. I truely wish I had some people I know who were studying Greek or were Greek speakers, it would really help me learn quicker. I have attempted to learn to speak Greek but I usually lose interest after awhile because I have no one to converse with. Unlike Spanish, where just about everybody knows some of it, Greek is one of those languages hardly anybody in Kentucky knows it or even thinks about it. I have been learning to read it, and have been studying it for about a year and a half. I can read it fairly good for what time I have been learning it, but I feel totally lost if I try to speak it. Oh well, I guess this is for another thread for another time. haha
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Postby ThomasGR » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:17 pm

If texts belong to the Bible or are of ecclesiastical use or interests, texts remain in the original form (only accent marks are simplified). The modern Greeks are very keen to preserve the original texts fearing that meanings may be altered and lost. In this case about the Creeds, texts are written by educated people of those times, who tried to combine the Koine of their centuries (!) with lot of atticisms, an earlier and premature attempt to revive ancient Greek language. It is neither Katharevousa nor Koine, neither can one judge and say it is Greek of e.g. the 4th or 6th century.
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