GinOskO in 1Person.Plural.Perfect Tense. Comments?

[WillGreek]

1P.Pl.Perf.Act.Ind. We have known/We have believed/We have known love.

1Jn 4:16 and
We have known and we have believed God's love. Which love God has in us.
God is love and the one remaining in God's love remains and God remains in that one.

1Jn 3:16 in this one
We have known love because that one placed his soul over us and we ought to place our souls over our brothers.

1Jn 2:3 and in this
We are knowing because we have known him. Whenever we might keep his commands.

1Jn2:4 because
The one who is saying “I have known him,” and is not keeping his commands is false and in this one there is no truth.

1Jn 2:5 yet
The one who might keep his word. Truly the love of God has been perfected in this one. Because we are knowing we are in him.

[Kopio]

I think first we need to know....what specifically would you like a comment on?? English translation of a Greek Perfect?? Aspect?? Voice?? Tense?? Please try and narrow the field for us a little. Is it specifically the verb GINWSKW and what that verb connotes?

Please...Throw me a bone

[mingshey]

I think it's not a grammar problem. It is related to the initiation of the gnostic mysteria. Also take into account that in Hebrew the word for "knowing" is also a word for s*xual intercourse. And it is in turn a powerful symbol for mystic union of man and the divine entity. Though I don't know much about gnosticism, the strange grammar must be related to the specific ritual of the early christians. Oh, this is my humble speculation. If you don't like it, don't take it seriously.

[Kopio]

I think it's not a grammar problem. It is related to the initiation of the gnostic mysteria. Also take into account that in Hebrew the word for "knowing" is also a word for s*xual ...

It is highly probable that 1 John was written as a polemic against Gnosticism or (even more likely) Docetism....hence the seeing, touching, etc. I don't think the Hebrew idea of "relations" has anything to do with the word in the mentioned context. Especially in light of "having known and believed God's love".

[mingshey]

It is highly probable that 1 John was written as a polemic against Gnosticism or (even more likely) Docetism....hence the seeing, touching, etc.

Hmm... I wouldn't know. But your argument also sounds reasonable, altho' I thought all the seeing, etc. were related to the initiation.

I don't think the Hebrew idea of "relations" has anything to do with the word in the mentioned context. Especially in light of "having known and believed God's love".

Yes, if the context is contrary to what I thought, it loses THAT sense. But there lingers the possibility of later insertions for specific purposes. Well, anyway I'll have to look closer what scholars say.

[WillGreek]

Matt, I will hear as many "barks" as you will give. Thx....