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Questions on Pl. Laws II.665D-E

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Questions on Pl. Laws II.665D-E

Postby theorganicwill » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:12 am

Hi all,

Two questions:

1) Why is χαίρει indicative but αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ optative?
2) Why is μᾶλλον repeated twice?

Thanks
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Re: Questions on Pl. Laws II.665D-E

Postby Markos » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:08 pm

Here's the Greeκ text:

πᾶς που γιγνόμενος πρεσβύτερος ὄκνου πρὸς τὰς [665ε] ᾠδὰς μεστός, καὶ χαίρει τε ἧττον πράττων τοῦτο καὶ ἀνάγκης γιγνομένης αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ ἂν μᾶλλον, ὅσῳ πρεσβύτερος καὶ σωφρονέστερος γίγνεται, τόσῳ μᾶλλον. ἆρ᾽ οὐχ οὕτως;

1) Why is χαίρει indicative but αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ optative?


The genitive absolute ἀνάγκης γιγνομένης functions as the protasis of a future less vivid condition, requiring an optative in the apodosis.

2) Why is μᾶλλον repeated twice?


It's eliptical for τόσῳ αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ ἂν μᾶλλον, "he would become more ashamed, by as much as he becomes older and wiser, by so much (he would become ashamed) more."

{ οὗτοι οἱ λόγοι Ἑλληνιστί

πᾶς που γιγνόμενος πρεσβύτερος ὄκνου πρὸς τὰς [665ε] ᾠδὰς μεστός, καὶ χαίρει τε ἧττον πράττων τοῦτο καὶ ἀνάγκης γιγνομένης αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ ἂν μᾶλλον, ὅσῳ πρεσβύτερος καὶ σωφρονέστερος γίγνεται, τόσῳ μᾶλλον. ἆρ᾽ οὐχ οὕτως;

1) Why is χαίρει indicative but αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ optative?


ἡ γενικὴ μετοχὴ «ἀνάγκης γιγνομένης» ἐστιν πρότασις καὶ τὸ «αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ ἂν» ἐστιν εὐτικὴ ἀπόδοσις.

2)Why is μᾶλλον repeated twice?


Τοῦτό ἐστιν ἔλλειψις ἀντὶ τοῦ « αἰσχύνοιτ᾽ ἂν μᾶλλον» }
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: Questions on Pl. Laws II.665D-E

Postby theorganicwill » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:26 pm

Very helpful. I see it now. Thank you.
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