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article question

Postby Nooj » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:34 pm

Sextus Empiricus is talking about what a Skeptic is like.

Καὶ ὁ Πυρρώνειος δὲ φιλόσοφος δυνάμει τῇ τῆς σκεπτικῆς ἀγωγῆς ἐννοίᾳ συναποδέδοται· ἔστι γὰρ ὁ μετέχων ταύτης τῆς δυνάμεως

Is this an instance of the relatively uncommon noun - article - modifier position? I have trouble understanding this.
Dolor poetas creat.
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Re: article question

Postby NateD26 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:05 pm

Nooj wrote:Is this an instance of the relatively uncommon noun - article - modifier position?

I think it's rather common: article - (gen.article-modifier-gen.noun) - noun.

ὁ Πυρρώνειος φιλόσοφος δυνάμει συναποδέδοται τῇ τῆς σκεπτικῆς ἀγωγῆς ἐννοίᾳ.

σκεπτική is a modifier of a definite ἀγωγή.

Whatever the sentence means, however, that's beyond me.
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Re: article question

Postby theorganicwill » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Nooj, (and other posters),

First, it's good to point out that the Greek quoted by Nooj is from Outlines of Skepticism I.v.

Second, consider the translation from a translation that was edited by Jonathan Barnes and Julia Annas: "The Pyrrhonian philosopher has been implicitly defined in our account of the concept of the Sceptical persuasion: a Pyrrhonian is someone who posses this ability." [Two tangents on vocabulary: (1) ἀγωγή, in Greek Skepticism, means 'persuasion' - although, interestingly, it doesn't mean this anywhere outside Skepticism. (2) ἔννοια - here in the dative - gets an adverbial sense 'implicitly'; Liddell & Scott does not have any entry that could match this sense - perhaps (A, 3) 'intention' of a testator, but that seems restricted to Greek law; perhaps (A, 2) works 'vague, notion'; so, perhaps, we should take ἐννοίᾳ as 'implicitly' only for Sextus Empiricus? No where else in Outlines does Sextus use the dative in this way <- compare III.vii.46 Οὕτω μὲν οὖν, ὅσον ἐπὶ τῇ ἐννοίᾳ τοῦ σώματος, ἀκατάληπτόν ἐστιν, εἰ ἔστι τι σῶμα·>]

Third, which item in the quoted Greek are you asking about?

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Re: article question

Postby Nooj » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:37 am

Thanks for the citation on the quote. I recommend the book in original or in translation. It's an interesting philosophy.

(2) ἔννοια - here in the dative - gets an adverbial sense 'implicitly'; Liddell & Scott does not have any entry that could match this sense - perhaps (A, 3) 'intention' of a testator, but that seems restricted to Greek law; perhaps (A, 2) works 'vague, notion'; so, perhaps, we should take ἐννοίᾳ as 'implicitly' only for Sextus Empiricus? No where else in Outlines does Sextus use the dative in this way <- compare III.vii.46 Οὕτω μὲν οὖν, ὅσον ἐπὶ τῇ ἐννοίᾳ τοῦ σώματος, ἀκατάληπτόν ἐστιν, εἰ ἔστι τι σῶμα·>]
After a couple of days of thought, I think ἐννοίᾳ goes with τῇ, and perhaps δυνάμει then is a dative of respect or location. So:

The Pyrrhonian philosopher has been defined by our conception (ἐννοίᾳ) of the Skeptical way, with reference to his ability.

I think implicitly has been put in there by the translators to make the sentence clearer in meaning.

Third, which item in the quoted Greek are you asking about?
I was confused about how δυνάμει fits in there, I thought maybe it went with τῇ ἐννοίᾳ somehow.
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