I think I understand the most basic form of the supplementary participle, but unfortunately, the book I'm using has some English to Greek exercises that seem to go beyond a the most basic without explanation, and I can't find any Greek to English sentences using the same construction to help.
I happened to hear the speakers asking the messengers.
and
We enjoy hearing Sokrates teaching the citizens about virtue.
In both cases, I understand the main verb + supplementary participle, but I'm not sure how to translate the next verbal form.
For instance:
ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τῶν ἀγγέλους ἐρωτῶν
Using an attributive participle seems wrong because the asking is not really attributive but what I happened to hear. It seems even more wrong in the next sentence for the same reason. Is it right to use some kind of articular infinitive here?
ἔτυχον ἀκούων τὸ ῥήτορας ἐρωτᾶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους
with the infinitive in the accusative as the object of ἀκούων?
I would appreciate any help.
Supplementary Participle
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Re: Supplementary Participle
Under τυγχάνω in LSJ you can see that
it was originally common "to express a coincidence" by joining this verb with a participle of another, and later by joining it with an infinitive.
In your first attempt, ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τῶν ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, you've turned asking the messengers into who were asking messengers,
which I believe changed the meaning.
Regarding your second, ἔτυχον ἀκούων τὸ ῥήτορας ἐρωτᾶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους, I'm not quite sure about ῥήτορας, nor what the overall meaning would be,
so I'll leave it to others.
I think your best bet is ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, where τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων simply describes what
he/she heard those ῥητόρων doing.
it was originally common "to express a coincidence" by joining this verb with a participle of another, and later by joining it with an infinitive.
In your first attempt, ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τῶν ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, you've turned asking the messengers into who were asking messengers,
which I believe changed the meaning.
Regarding your second, ἔτυχον ἀκούων τὸ ῥήτορας ἐρωτᾶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους, I'm not quite sure about ῥήτορας, nor what the overall meaning would be,
so I'll leave it to others.
I think your best bet is ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, where τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων simply describes what
he/she heard those ῥητόρων doing.
Nate.
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Re: Supplementary Participle
Thanks for the help.
Using the participle that way makes sense.
Using the participle that way makes sense.
- jaihare
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Re: Supplementary Participle
איזה רושם טוב אתה עושה פה! כל הכבוד לך. - ג'ייסוןNateD26 wrote:Under τυγχάνω in LSJ you can see that
it was originally common "to express a coincidence" by joining this verb with a participle of another, and later by joining it with an infinitive.
In your first attempt, ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τῶν ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, you've turned asking the messengers into who were asking messengers,
which I believe changed the meaning.
Regarding your second, ἔτυχον ἀκούων τὸ ῥήτορας ἐρωτᾶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους, I'm not quite sure about ῥήτορας, nor what the overall meaning would be,
so I'll leave it to others.
I think your best bet is ἔτυχον ἀκούων ῥητόρων τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων, where τοὺς ἀγγέλους ἐρωτώντων simply describes what
he/she heard those ῥητόρων doing.
Jason Hare
jason@thehebrewcafe.com
jason@thehebrewcafe.com