Textkit Logo

Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby chibibaiyun » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:57 am

I'm puzzled at the part of it: ὃς ἂν γνώμῃ τε δοκῇ μὴ ἀξύνετος εἶναι καὶ ἀξιώσει προήκῃ,_

Thanks a lot!
chibibaiyun
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:06 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby NateD26 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:36 pm

Maybe it'd be best to add your own attempt, and also post the entire sentence,
especially when you refer to a relative clause.


ἐπειδὰν δὲ κρύψωσι γῇ, ἀνὴρ ᾑρημένος ὑπὸ τῆς πόλεως,
ὃς ἂν γνώμῃ τε δοκῇ μὴ ἀξύνετος εἶναι καὶ ἀξιώσει προήκῃ,
λέγει ἐπ' αὐτοῖς ἔπαινον τὸν πρέποντα· μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο ἀπέρχονται.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby chibibaiyun » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:44 am

at the first glance, I was really puzzled at the dative and subjunctives with ῃ,such as γνώμῃ, δοκῇ, ἀξιώσει, προήκῃ.

Now I feel much clear about that, and try to translate it word by word;pls by my corrector!

whenever they have buried [those dead] in earth, a man chosen by the city-state who should seem to be not ridiculous/intelligent in judgement and should be the first in worth, gives a praising speech for them in a fit discourse; after that they depart.


Thanks a lot!
chibibaiyun
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:06 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby NateD26 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi, chibibaiyun!

I thought to translate this way too, except I read ἐπειδὰν + aor. as after but you can say
whenever they have finished + verb to give both the general sense of subj. and anteriority of the aor.
Those datives gave me a hard time until I decided on pretty much the same meaning as yours.
With λέγει ἐπ' αὐτοῖς ἔπαινον τὸν πρέποντα I had troubles, specifically I thought λέγει ἔπαινον has the meaning of
to praise and then the articular part. is the direct object (one person among those buried who is distinguished/suitable
to receive said praise), but it's actually as you read it, an articular adj. for ἔπαινον, for all the buried.

Then I checked myself with the 1910 translation @Perseus, and they loosely read ἀξιώσει as a noun and προήκῃ as its adjective,
to be the first in worth/reputation = of eminent reputation; however, they read γνώμῃ not as going with μὴ ἀξύνετος
but with δοκῇ, to be considered in their opinion to be wise/intelligent = of approved wisdom.

There are notes by E.C. Marchant (1891) about ἀξίωσις worth noting:
Grote and Shil. say ἀξίωσις means the estimate one has of oneself; ἀξίωμα that which others have of one.
Such a wide difference does not exist here. ἀξίωσις is the recognition of a man's γνώμη.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:31 pm

NateD26 wrote:Then I checked myself with the 1910 translation @Perseus, and they loosely read ἀξιώσει as a noun and προήκῃ as its adjective,
to be the first in worth/reputation = of eminent reputation; however, they read γνώμῃ not as going with μὴ ἀξύνετος
but with δοκῇ, to be considered in their opinion to be wise/intelligent = of approved wisdom.

Like you and chibibaiyun, I also read γνώμῃ with ἀξύνετος -- it seems to me that the word order strongly suggests that γνώμῃ and ἀξιώσει are paralleled and you'd have something like "in judgement is considered to be wise and in reputation is eminent"
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby chibibaiyun » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:54 pm

thanks a lot to NateD26 and modus.irrealis ! I quite agree with you two.

by the way,
except I read ἐπειδὰν + aor. as after


Is κρύψωσι a subj.aor.?
chibibaiyun
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:06 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby NateD26 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:48 pm

chibibaiyun wrote:Is κρύψωσι a subj.aor.?

Υes. Αor. ind. act. is ἔκρυψα and the subj. is κρύψω. [π-σ » ψ]
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Thuc.2.34.6,literally translation?

Postby ximo » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:11 am

ἐπειδὰν δὲ κρύψωσι γῇ, ἀνὴρ ᾑρημένος ὑπὸ τῆς πόλεως,
ὃς ἂν γνώμῃ τε δοκῇ μὴ ἀξύνετος εἶναι καὶ ἀξιώσει προήκῃ,
λέγει ἐπ' αὐτοῖς ἔπαινον τὸν πρέποντα· μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο ἀπέρχονται.

When they bury (the dead) in the earth, a man selected/chosen by the city, who seems to be sensible/intelligent and is distinguished by his value, pronounces over them a convenient praise. After that they go/leave.
phpbb
ximo
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:17 pm
Location: Spain


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot], MSN [Bot] and 51 guests