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Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

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Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

Postby NateD26 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:13 pm


οὐχ οἱ μὲν πονηροὶ κακόν τι ἐργάζονται τοὺς ἀεὶ ἐγγυτάτω αὑτῶν ὄντας,
οἱ δ᾽ ἀγαθοὶ ἀγαθόν τι;

Does ἀεί inside a definite participle have some meaning of at any time, in every case,
as the '66 translation translated and this commentary by W. Tyler noted?

If so, can someone please direct me to the source of this meaning, in Smyth or elsewhere?

Thanks.
Nate.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:58 am

I wonder if that's what the LSJ is getting at with it's "but" when it says
with the Art., ὁ ἀ. χρόνος eternity, Hdt.1.54, Pl.Phd. 103e, etc.; οἱ ἀ. ὄντες the immortals, X.Cyr.1.6.46, etc.:—but ὁ αἰ. βασιλεύων the king for the time being, Hdt.2.98; οἱ ἀ. δικάζοντες D. 21.223; ὁ αἰ. ἐντὸς γιγνόμενος every one as he got inside, Th.4.68; τὸν ἀ. προστυχόντα D.21.131; τοῖσι τούτων αἰ. ἐκγόνοισι to their descendants for ever, Hdt.1.105, cf. 3.83, etc.;

Although it's not very clear on the meaning.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

Postby NateD26 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:59 pm

I read this entry in LSJ as well before posting but the meaning was not clear to me.
I'll keep searching in Smyth.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:13 pm

Some of those references seem to have a similar meaning, though, like ὁ αἰ. ἐντὸς γιγνόμενος every one as he got inside = on each occasion that someone went inside he...

I also found some examples like Charmides 164e καὶ λέγει πρὸς τὸν ἀεὶ εἰσιόντα οὐκ ἄλλο τι ἢ Σωφρόνει says to each one.. = on each occasion that someone enters, it says...

To be honest, I can't say that I was aware of this usage and I wouldn't have noticed anything odd about this passage from the Apology where "always" seems to fit in just fine, and might make better sense. I understood it as meaning bad people do harm to people that are in regular contact with them (especially with ἐγγυτάτω there), not that bad people so super-contagious that even casual one-time contact results in harm.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 25c6-7

Postby NateD26 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:15 pm

Thanks, modus. It is much clearer now, and thanks for the example from Charmides.
I'll read it for now in its default sense always, because it does fit in this context, as you said.
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