Textkit Logo

Possessive Genitive

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:37 pm

I have a question based upon text found in 1 John 1:1

τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς (the Word of Life.)

We have two terms that are Genitive "λόγου" and "ζωῆς"

Could this be a genitive of possession?

Here is my thought on this. In certain grammatical settings "Love of God" is possessive Genitive. What would prevent the "Word of Life" from being a possessive Genitive idea?

Thanks in advance
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby jk0592 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 am

Out of context as it is, I would say it is genitive absolute.
Jean K.
jk0592
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:20 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:23 am

jk0592

Out of context as it is, I would say it is genitive absolute.


When you say "Out of context as it is" are you suggesting that it isn't connected to the rest of the sentence?

My understanding is this:

In the case of the Genitive absolute , the clause isn't connected to the rest of the sentence? In this case it seems as if it is speaking from the sentence. Maybe I am wrong.

Thanks for the response

GTM
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby jk0592 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:04 am

What I mean is that we do not know the rest of the sentence, so there is no context to take iinto account. So I supposed that you extracted a part of a sentence, and that this "phrase" had "no grammatical relationship to the rest of the sentence" to quote Athenaze, and that it is therefore a genitive absolute. But I might be wrong...sorry if I confused you.
Jean K.
jk0592
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:20 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:56 pm

jk0592

What I mean is that we do not know the rest of the sentence, so there is no context to take into account. So I supposed that you extracted a part of a sentence, and that this "phrase" had "no grammatical relationship to the rest of the sentence" to quote Athenaze, and that it is therefore a genitive absolute. .


Good point.

But I might be wrong...sorry if I confused you


You didn't confuse me. Thank you. I have been wrestling with this text for some time now. I guess I am a little slow sometimes.


GTM
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby NateD26 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:03 pm

this text is freely available online both in Greek New Testament and various English translations.

the first line is quite long (yet easy to translate) and includes anacoluthon
which right before it we have περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς.

so you have forgotten that the first genitive is part of a prepositional phrase and the second is possessive

"about/concerning the word of life"

and even if the first genitive wasn't a part of the prep. phrase, it is not uncommon to use
as many possessive genitives as needed.
Last edited by NateD26 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:13 pm

NateD26

Could you expand upon your comment in regards to anacoluthon in this text?

Thanks in advance

GTM
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby NateD26 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:42 pm

it is usually a parenthetical remark that breaks the line of thought of the author and consequently the grammatical sequence.
Editors enclose anacoluthon between (em) dashes. in my text it looks like this:

Ὃ ἦν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς
ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν
ἐψηλάφησαν, περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς —
καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἐφανερώθη, καὶ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ μαρτυροῦμεν
καὶ ἀπαγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν τὴν ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν
πρὸς τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἐφανερώθη ἡμῖν

ὃ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπαγγέλλομεν καὶ ὑμῖν,
ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς κοινωνίαν ἔχητε μεθ' ἡμῶν.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:50 pm

NateD26

Now I understand. You are speaking of the parenthesis in verse 2. Thanks.

You quoted:

and even if the first genitive wasn't a part of the prep. phrase, it is not uncommon to use
as many possessive genitives as needed.


So are you saying that it could be possessive Genitive?

GTM
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby NateD26 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:24 pm

as i said above, in this case, the first genitive τοῦ λόγου does not stand by itself but is a part of
a prepositional phrase περὶ τοῦ λόγου, whereas the second is possessive, as Darwin's "On the Origin of Species".

in my last reply I've used consecutive possessive genitives "the line of thought of the author" which is the same as
the author's line of thought.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby GTM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:49 pm

NateD26

Thank you for your input.

GTM
GTM
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: Possessive Genitive

Postby Swth\r » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:40 pm

jk0592 wrote:Out of context as it is, I would say it is genitive absolute.


I am not sure that I have understood yoyur point... As far as I know, this construction appears only with participles, or, rarely, with the adjectives "ἑκών, ἄκων". :?
Dives qui sapiens est...
Swth\r
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:51 pm
Location: Greece


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Qimmik and 33 guests