Textkit Logo

prose scansion

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

prose scansion

Postby chad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:48 am

hi guys,

similar to 1%homeless' question about pitch, i'm curious to know how many people here on the board try to figure out the correct syllable lengths in prose they're studying, and how you go about it. i check every word in sophocles using perseus, which is painful... is there an easier way?? lsj is pretty useless for this. cheers, chad. :)

(i should point out that i'm asking about doubtful vowels, not long vowels/diphthongs/syllables before double consonants/final syllables of antepenult-accented words &c which are already obvious ;) )
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Re: prose scansion

Postby annis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:37 pm

chad wrote:similar to 1%homeless' question about pitch, i'm curious to know how many people here on the board try to figure out the correct syllable lengths in prose they're studying, and how you go about it. i check every word in sophocles using perseus, which is painful... is there an easier way?? lsj is pretty useless for this.


Useless? Which version do you have? Mine gives all doubtful vowels when known, but I have the middle sized edition.

I try to use the correct lengths, but in prose I sometimes get a bit sloppy with this, partly because for easy Greek bits I'm slurping the words into my brain without phonating.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby chad » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:00 am

hi annis, my abridged version of lsj doesn't give me anywhere near the amount of macrons that are in e.g. my latin dictionary, i find that i have to check a lot of words in sophocles' iambic trimeter and homer where lsj doesn't indicate the lengths of doubtfuls.

i find it quite easy to scan caesar using just a dictionary and a grammar with the lengths in the endings marked (which is necessary of course to get the word accents right), but it's impossible to do the same thing with greek i find, using just lsj and a grammar.

i've been regularly following your aoidoi site since i started teaching myself greek and latin last year... you've most prob. inhaled more than enough greek poetry to slurp greek prose with the right lengths naturally :)

cheers, chad. :)
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby annis » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:12 am

chad wrote:my abridged version of lsj doesn't give me anywhere near the amount of macrons that are in e.g. my latin dictionary,


The new Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary has macrons aplenty.

--
wm,
still surprised the Little Liddel doesn't mark quantities
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Dionusius Philadelphus » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:15 pm

I wouldn't wish the Little Liddell on my worst enemy. For the cost and the help it gives, your best investment is probably the Middle Liddell, as long as you always consult up-to-date scholarship and annotate it as you go. The Great Scott isn't worth the cost considering all of the errors and omissions.

For example, you'll come across a fragment of Anacreon and wonder what a smith is doing beating bronze with an axe (πέλακυς). A good commentator will point you to a 70-year old article in a German journal asking, "axe, or hammer?," and soon it's clear that the word here (and elsewhere) means hammer (i.e."striker;" see ahead) and is not derived, as LSJ claims, from a Babylonian loanword, but is an augmented form of P.I.E. *pel-, "to strike" (which, incidentally, is the root in English anvil).

In fact, many definitions in the LSJ are based on disputed readings that have since been completely rejected. It can be a struggle, which is why I think historical and comparative linguistics is so helpful.

As you progress you'd do well to consult author specific lexicons like Slater's Pindar (helpful with a lot of lyric), or even Autenrieth's Homer.
phpbb
User avatar
Dionusius Philadelphus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:08 pm
Location: Metro Philly, USA

Postby chad » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:15 am

hi dennis,

i just bought the big momma lsj yesterday, because i saw it in perfect condition in a 2nd-hand bookstore, $300 cheaper than the 1st-hand copy down the road :) ... i remembered your post about annotating articles in the lsj as you go, to correct errors.

are there any must-correct articles, like the one you mentioned below? any suggestions you give would be greatly appreciated :)

thanks, chad. :)
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby 1%homeless » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:23 am

Nice. 300 cheaper? It probably cost you almost next to nothing. I can't find any used bookstores with a good classics section here. Yeah, LSJ really needs to be updated. I don't understand, there is a recent Oxford Latin Dictionary(well, sort of recent), so why not Greek? I wonder if there is a better dictionary in a different language...
User avatar
1%homeless
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:21 am
Location: East Hollywood

Postby Ptolemaios » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:11 pm

The most recent dictionary Ancient Greek-modern language is the Spanish Diccionario Griego-Espanol, under direction of prof. F.R. Adrados. There are now six volumes published (1386 pages), and the last word covered is [face=SPIonic]e)kpeleka/w[/face].

Ptolemaios
Ptolemaios
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:15 am
Location: The Netherlands

Postby mingshey » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:36 pm

chad wrote:i just bought the big momma lsj yesterday,


Great! I just wish to see what it looks like! :D
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby chad » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:56 pm

its massive, because its the 1996 version which includes the revised supplement in the one volume... it doesn't fit in my bookshelf... :)
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby 1%homeless » Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:42 am

The most recent dictionary Ancient Greek-modern language is the Spanish Diccionario Griego-Espanol, under direction of prof. F.R. Adrados. There are now six volumes published (1386 pages), and the last word covered is e)kpeleka/w.


This is interesting. I remember the Spaniards (is that PC?) were working on a Homeric dictionary too. What happened to German classical scholarship? I would think they would be doing something advanced like this.
User avatar
1%homeless
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:21 am
Location: East Hollywood

Postby Ptolemaios » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:24 am

They're working on the Lexicon des frühgriechischen Epos in Hamburg; and of course on the Thesaurus Linguae Latinae in München.

An intermediate lexicon is under construction in Cambridge: http://www.classics.cam.ac.uk/glp/.

Ptolemaios
Ptolemaios
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:15 am
Location: The Netherlands

Postby 1%homeless » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:14 pm

Yay, an English one! Thanks for the tip :D 2007 isn't too bad...
User avatar
1%homeless
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:21 am
Location: East Hollywood


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests