Textkit Logo

Eur.Hec.914 - Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην? Hyper-Doric?

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.

Eur.Hec.914 - Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην? Hyper-Doric?

Postby ἑκηβόλος » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:15 pm

Am I correct in assuming that Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην here? Is that standard Doric or a sort of hyper-Doric?
I notice that ἁδύς is not written for ἡδὺς though.

Euripides, Hecuba 914-916 wrote:μεσονύκτιος ὠλλύμαν,
ἦμος ἐκ δείπνων ὕπνος ἡδὺς ἐπ᾽ ὄσσοις 915
σκίδναται,
Thou wast not born for death, immortal Bird!
No hungry generations tread thee down;
The voice I hear this passing night was heard
In ancient days by emperor and clown:
(Keats, Ode to a nightingale, 1819).
User avatar
ἑκηβόλος
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:19 am
Location: Nanchang, PRC

Re: Eur.Hec.914 - Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην? Hyper-Doric?

Postby Hylander » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:04 pm

-μαν is "standard" Doric and represents the original 1st sing. middle secondary ending, which became -μην in Attic-Ionic. However, "standard" Doric is a term that should be used with caution, given the inconsistencies in the transmission of texts in dialects other than Attic-Ionic.

ὕπνος ἡδὺς is an epic echo and ἦμος is an epic word, and these are consequently Ionic forms even in Euripides' "Doric" chorus.

Not all etas in Attic-Ionic were originally long alphas. Eta was an inherited vowel in Greek, and dialects other than Attic-Ionic, including Doric, preserved this vowel. Some texts in those dialects have been altered to change inherited etas to alphas, and in some instances, long alphas may even have been originally written for genuine Doric etas in the thinly Doricized choruses of Attic drama. For the most part, the "Doric" choruses are Attic with long alphas substituted for etas and a few other salient Doric features.
Hylander
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Eur.Hec.914 - Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην? Hyper-Doric?

Postby ἑκηβόλος » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:42 pm

A different point in that same passage... Why is the speaker describing themself adejectivally as μεσονύκτιος rather than using a temporal adverb to describe the destruction?
Thou wast not born for death, immortal Bird!
No hungry generations tread thee down;
The voice I hear this passing night was heard
In ancient days by emperor and clown:
(Keats, Ode to a nightingale, 1819).
User avatar
ἑκηβόλος
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:19 am
Location: Nanchang, PRC

Re: Eur.Hec.914 - Is ὠλλύμαν for ὠλλύμην? Hyper-Doric?

Postby Hylander » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:16 pm

Why is the speaker describing themself adjectivally as μεσονύκτιος rather than using a temporal adverb


This is idiomatic Greek.

Smyth 1042:

1042. Several adjectives of time, place, order of succession, etc., are used as predicates where English employs an adverb or a preposition with its case: ““ἀφικνοῦνται τριταῖοι” they arrive on the third day” X. A. 5.3.2, κατέβαινον σκοταῖοι they descended in the dark 4. 1. 10. In such cases the adjective is regarded as a quality of the subject; whereas an adverb would regard the manner of the action.

a. Time, place: χρόνιος late, ὄρθριος in the morning, δευτεραῖος on the second day, ποσταῖος how many days? ὑπαίθριος in the open air.

b. Order of succession: πρῶτος, πρότερος first, ὕστερος later, μέσος in the midst, τελευταῖος last, ὕστατος last.

N.—When one action is opposed to another in order of sequence, the adverbs πρῶτον, πρότερον, ὕστατον, etc., not the adjectives πρῶτος, etc.. must be used: ““πρῶτον μὲν ἐδάκρυ_ε πολὺν χρόνον . . . εἶτα δὲ ἔλεξε τοιάδε” first he wept for a long time, then he spoke as follows” X. A. 1.3.2. Hence distinguish

πρῶτος τῇ πόλει προσέβαλε he was the first to attack the city.
πρώτῃ τῇ πόλει προσέβαλε the city was the first place he attacked.
πρῶτον τῇ πόλει προσέβαλε his first act was to attack the city.

The same rule applies in the case of μόνος, μόνον, as μόνην τὴν ἐπιστολη<*> ἔγραψα this is the only letter I wrote, μόνον ἔγραψα τὴν ἐπιστολήν I only wrote (but did not send) the letter. But this distinction is not always observed (Aes. 3.69).


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Smyth+grammar+1042&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007
Hylander
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm


Return to Learning Greek