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Re: Asking help for answers

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:29 pm

Mindy,

How would you translate

καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων

What case form is Μαγεδων. Why?


1Chr. 8:8 καὶ Σααρημ ἐγέννησεν ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μωαβ μετὰ τὸ ἀποστεῖλαι αὐτὸν Ωσιμ καὶ τὴν Βααδα γυναῖκα αὐτοῦ.

2Chr. 35:22 καὶ οὐκ ἀπέστρεψεν Ιωσιας τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ, ἀλλ᾿ ἢ πολεμεῖν αὐτὸν ἐκραταιώθη καὶ οὐκ ἤκουσεν τῶν λόγων Νεχαω διὰ στόματος θεοῦ καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων.
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Postby Mindy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:45 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:04 pm

Very good. But δὲ should be translated as "but" or "and." "Then," in a temporal sense, is signaled with other words. It's something that will make more sense with reading.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
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Postby Mindy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:06 pm

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Postby Mindy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:11 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm

καὶ ἦλθεν τοῦ πολεμῆσαι ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδων


Mindy wrote:
And he went to the war in the plain of Magedon.

Μαγεδων is Genitive, because it describes the plain.

The Hebrew word is valley instead of plain.


Right!

ἐν τῷ πεδίῳ Μαγεδδαους translates בבקעת מגדו

where בקעת is in the construct state.

2Chr. 35:22
ב ‎Particle preposition
בקעת ‎Noun feminine singular construct
מגדו Noun properName
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Postby Mindy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:15 am

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Postby Mindy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:36 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:14 pm

4. He wishes to lead the men out of danger.
τούς ανθρώπους έθέλει άγειν έκ τόυ κινδύνου.


The article τόυ κινδύνου is a tough call. I looked at a bunch of examples in TLG. After doing my own research I looked at the answer key and the article was in parentheses indicating contextual issues which could not be determined. Within the Cognitive Framework, the article indicates that substantive is mentally accessible not necessarily having been introduced within the textual co-text. So the article could be deleted. I found several examples where it was. It really has to do with how the narrator wants to frame the discourse. Article usage is beyond the scope of Crosby & Schaeffer.
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 pm

Mindy wrote:p. 12 (c) Complete:
1. τά δέ δένδρα ήν (linking verb) μίκρά.

2. ίππους δ άγετε είς τόν ποταμόν (singular).

3. έν τώ σταδίω (singular) ήσαν οί αδελφοί.


Above are good.

Mindy wrote:(d) Write in Greek:
1. The stones were beautiful.
οί λίθους ήσαν καλούς.


ῆσαν takes a nominative on both sides of the verb. λίθους is accusative.

Mindy wrote:2. The brave messenger was hostile to the general.
ό άγγελος αγαθόν πολέμιος ήν τώ στρατηγώ (singular).


ἀγαθόν should be nominative masculine to agree with the messenger. Also take note of this difference:

ὁ ἀγαθός ἄγγελος -- the brave messenger
ὁ ἄγγελος ὁ ἀγαθός -- the brave messenger
ὁ ἄγγελος ἀγαθός -- the messenger that is brave

Mindy wrote:3. The friends have fine horses.
οί φίλους έχουσιν αγαθούς ίππους.


φίλους is acc. pl. They are the subject of the sentence and should be nominative.

Mindy wrote:4. He wishes to lead the men out of danger.
τούς ανθρώπους έθέλει άγειν έκ τόυ κινδύνου.


Good.

Mindy wrote:5. The brothers were hostile to the general.
οί αδελφοί πολέμιοι ήσαν τώ στρατηγώ.


Good.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
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Postby Mindy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:27 am

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:54 pm

ον — good, but remember that while it can be neuter nominative or accusative it would only be masculine accusative

ῳ — good, but you forgot one

ου — good, but you forgot one

οις — good, but you forgot one

α — Yes, it can be a nominative neuter plural, but also an accusative neuter plural. (For feminines, see the next section)

Thank you for changing the topic title.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:35 pm

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Postby Mindy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:39 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:55 pm

All good except for ους, which I missed the first time.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:25 pm

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Postby Mindy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:55 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:59 pm

All of these look good to me.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:11 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Good. And you were right to notice that τα δενδρα takes a singular verb.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:27 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:34 pm

Mindy wrote:What were written on the tablet?


Image

Why don't you try writing out the Greek that you can recognize in the tablet first, and then I (or someone else) will correct.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
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Postby Mindy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:47 pm

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Postby Mindy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:39 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:56 pm

Here are the first two lines:

ϹΟΦΟΥΠΑΡΑΝΔΡΟϹΠΡΟϹΔΕΧΟΥϹΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΑΝ
ΜΗΠΑϹΙΝΕΙΚΗΤΟΙϹΦΙΛΟΙϹΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΑΙ

We'd write that today as:

σοφοῦ παρ’ ἀνδρὸς προσδέχου συμβουλίαν
μὴ πᾶσιν εἰκῇ τοῖς φίλοις πιστεύετε

"Accept advice from a wise man."
"Don't trust all of your friends heedlessly."

You were correct to transcribe ΦΙΛΟΙΣΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΑΙ, however the schoolmaster has made a mistake here. It should be ΠΙϹΤΕΥΕΤΕ. The rest of the lines are an attempt of the student to copy them. With some errors.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:05 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:16 pm

Yes. Ϲ is the "lunate sigma."

It would have been early centuries AD in Egypt, and that makes a girl less likely, though not impossible. Poor handwriting for a girl, I'd think.
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:56 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:53 pm

All good, except the first. δε comes second in a sentence.

I don’t know the answer to the question about ΒοΥ. It looks like some ligatures that I’ve seen in medieval manuscripts, but I don’t know if there is any relation. It may just be a correction.
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm

jeidsath wrote:All good, except the first. δε comes second in a sentence.


LSJ

POSITION of δέ. It usu. stands second: hence freq. between Art. and Subst. or Prep. and case; but also after Subst., or words forming a connected notion, hence it may stand third, γυναῖκα πιστὴν δ' ἐν δόμοις εὕροι A.Ag.606, cf. Th.411, Eu.531, S.Ph.959, etc.; fourth, Id.OT485, E.Hel.688, A.Pr.323,383, etc.; fifth, ib. 401codd.; even sixth, Epigen.7(codd. Poll.); so in Prose after a neg., οὐχ ὑπ' ἐραστοῦ δέ, to avoid confusion between οὐ δέ and οὐδέ, Pl.Phdr.227c.
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Postby Mindy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:14 pm

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Re: Exercises from Crosby and Schaeffer

Postby jeidsath » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:21 pm

So you can do:

τοὺς δ' ἵππους ὁ ἄγγελος...
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μὴ δ’ οὕτως ἀγαθός περ ἐὼν θεοείκελ’ Ἀχιλλεῦ
κλέπτε νόῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐ παρελεύσεαι οὐδέ με πείσεις.
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Postby Mindy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:45 pm

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